How to be a better presenter—with Presentation Coach, Andrea Pacini

150_Andrea Pacini

Mikey: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Presentation Thinking, aka the Storyteller's Study Club. We have an amazing guest, a return visitor, a kindred spirit, a fellow presentation thinker, and then some, Andrea Pacini, author of the highly commended book, Confident Presenter, a presentation coach, head of Ideas on Stage UK. Andrea specializes in working with business owners, leaders, and their teams who want to become more confident presenters.

In 2024, Andrea, you were awarded Best Virtual Speaker in the Speaker Awards, and you're on a mission to stop great ideas from failing because of the way they were presented. His vision is to help hundreds of thousands of [00:01:00] business leaders inspire their audiences, increase their influence, and make a positive impact on the world.

Andrea, welcome back to Presentation Thinking.

Andrea: Thank you. Thank you, Mikey. Thank you, Molly. I had a fantastic time having a chat with you. When was it? Last year? A couple of years ago? I know. It was last

Molly: spring. I was looking.

Andrea: Last spring. And so happy to be back.

Molly: Yeah. Oh, Andrea, thanks for joining us again. I remember, we're gonna link your previous episode, 77, where you joined us.

And we talked about your experience as a presentation coach, and your book was just getting ready to come out, Confident Presenter, and so that was a really exciting time for you to be, you know, promoting it, talking about all the ideas within it, and we knew even then that our paths would cross again because we had so much to talk about, I feel like, we really related on a presentation nerdery level, and it was really funny because Mikey and I, a few months ago, doing our TED Talk in series, Where we just watch Ted talk and break down the ins and outs and, you know, [00:02:00] the structure of it.

We had, you know, we talked about Phil, your colleague from Ideas on Stage, is his framework, the audience transformation roadmap, and without realizing that he was also an Ideas on Stage guy, and we were like, oh my god, of course he's friends with Andrea, like, this was such a good TED Talk, such a solid framework for presentation, it reminded me how much we, um, you know, enjoyed our conversation, and I, had to email you again.

So thanks for joining.

Andrea: Yeah, I remember, I remember Molly, I saw, I saw a post on LinkedIn that you wrote about Feel and, and he's in our audience transformation framework. And then I don't remember what happened, but yes, maybe you then send me a message and I said, Oh, but, but wait a moment, but Feel is part of Ideas on Stage as well.

And then we connected the dots. Yeah, yeah. That was fun.

Molly: It was just one of those like second degree, third degree connection things. Makes total sense in the presentation community.

Mikey: Andre, you're like a year out from publishing Confident Presenter. Can you tell us? What is life like post publishing a [00:03:00] book and can you tell us about that journey?

Andrea: Okay, that's interesting. Depends on which angle we want to discuss this, but on many levels, life is exactly what it was a year before without the book, but He has also changed in, in many ways. Having a book is so powerful for a number of reasons. One is often we think about the power of a book for, for others, for your audience, for your listeners.

But the first thing is for you, the process of writing a book allows you to get a lot of clarity about what you do, how you do it. Again, Molly, you were talking about the framework, some models, and how you explain certain things. And what you find is that once you put a lot of effort, because it takes a lot of effort to write a book, you've got lots of Content a lots of ways that you can use and reuse repurpose for you to add value to your audience [00:04:00] to your distance that's one thing and also i said as i've never wrote a book i've never written a book because i wanted to become a global bestseller that has never been the intention for me i say as.

Like a business for me, it's a business card. It's, it's a, it's an expensive business card, but, but, but it works. Like I give it away any opportunity I have to give away my book. Then I do it all the time. I'm happy to do it for two reasons. One reason is because. If there's just one more person who can discover some ideas and they can get value out of those ideas for them to be able to become more effective presenters, that's the most important thing.

And also it works really well from a, from a business perspective as well. I, we find that many of the conversations that we end up having with potential clients, for example, Um, come from either them having found my book, Confident Presenter. [00:05:00] Also, Molly, again, you mentioned Phil, Phil Wicknell. He has his own book, Business Presentation Revolution.

So, so it works really well from that perspective.

Molly: Yeah. The ultimate conversation starter. Hey, I wrote this book. How, and just to toot your own horn, you have won some amazing awards since then. So it's been just over a year on. And you've been awarded the Best Presentation Skills Training Specialist in the UK, Best Virtual Speaker from the Speaker Awards from this year, Highly Committed Book from the Business Book Awards, and Outstanding External Provider.

a finalist at the Learning Excellence Awards for this year. How has all of those like, is that incredibly validating or what for your book?

Andrea: Thank you. Thank you, Molly, for, for not asking me to, to mention these things because I don't, I don't like to do that. You did it for me. So thank you. Yeah. Again, from that perspective, 2024 has been An amazing year, especially in terms of the, the, the external [00:06:00] validation and recognition that we received for me, like two out of those, you mentioned the one about the book, of course, but also again, I don't like to talk about these things, but best virtual speak at the speaker awards.

You get there and you have lots of speakers, professional speakers, and very respective judges, and when you get a recognition from, from those people, then, then I, I'm not, I'm not going to lie. It's, it's, it's a nice feeling. Yeah,

Music: for sure. And also,

Andrea: yeah, best presentation skills, training specialists in the UK.

Yeah, it's been, it's been a wonderful year from that perspective in terms of that external validation and recognition. And, and also Mikey, going back to your question, it might also be that for, for all of these awards, except for the book one, having a book gives you immediate authority just because, just because you have that [00:07:00] book.

And so he helps as well.

Mikey: I was gonna ask, yeah, if it becomes, it's a business card, but also almost your ticket to more stages, would you say, like, pre and post book, your submissions are being accepted more commonly, you're getting invited to more opportunities. A hundred percent. Okay. A hundred percent.

That's awesome. Molly, I know we wanted to dive into, like, just so that listeners who haven't read the book, maybe Andrea could just Get a little glimpse of what they might take away from it. So I think we've got a couple of fun bullets lined up. Are there any that you would want to kind of kind of highlight from the confident presenter?

Andrea: So for me, Mikey, the main thing is that the main thing I would like people to take away from the book is that, and the reason why I brought the book is because there's a misconception in the industry. Many people think that for them to be able to become more confident presenters, Then they need to start working on their delivery skills, things like eye contact, body language, gestures, voice.

Now, these things are important, but they are not [00:08:00] the most important thing. For me, confidence in presenting comes from three things. Number one. Preparation and familiarity. I watched an interview of Kobe Bryant some time ago, and, you know, one of the best NBA players of all time. And one of the questions was, Kobe, how is it possible that every time I see you playing, you always look so confident?

And he said, the only reason why you think I'm confident. Is because when you see me doing certain things, I've done those things a thousand times before confidence comes from familiarity from preparation, nothing to do with your delivery. So that's one thing also comes from following a certain process.

There's a structured way of thinking about presenting from understanding your audience, identifying your key messages, creating a clear structure, uh, illustrating your message effectively from a visual perspective, if it's useful, and then you get to the end, which is your ability to make a good [00:09:00] connection with the audience.

And you also do that with your delivery. But you see, that's the only the last step of the process. And then finally, I don't know what you think guys, and I'm curious to hear your perspective as well. But in my experience, 80 percent of your confidence comes from your ability to develop a compelling message.

Without a story that resonates with your audience. It doesn't matter how good you are from a delivery perspective. And that's why my book only covers the message side of things. I don't talk about slight design. For example, I don't talk about delivery. Not because these things are not important. But for me, the most important thing for you to become a more effective and more confident presenter is your ability to craft a story that resonates with the audience.

Molly: Yeah, I love that because it's so, it seems nuanced, but it's so different when you get into it. And if you don't have that foundational skill, you won't be able to execute the delivery piece to land what the amazing story that you [00:10:00] have, you know. So this is, I think, a really smart differentiation that you've done.

Mikey: And I think you, you know, we know that clarity trumps convolution. You know, when we just don't have it straight in our head. And it's like you said, when you went through the process of writing a book, now you know, okay, like, now I actually have articulated in my own head, my thoughts and my point of view.

And so, to do so with your messaging up front, Yeah, you really have to work some stuff out, I think, because I imagine a lot of us when we first get out there, it's like, well, what do I have to say that nobody's already said a million times before? I don't want to be, you know, cliche, uttering things that, yeah, we already know that.

And so, yeah, what can I bring that hasn't been said or hasn't been said in a certain way and that I imagine it's from clarifying and working on that messaging to gain that confidence. So I love that. You put more emphasis on, on the message.

Molly: Andrea, I know you have this featured in your book, and Mikey and I read this book, Made to Stick by the Heath Brothers, [00:11:00] and just to kind of cover that foundational piece of communication, do you want to get into that little example with tappers versus listeners?

Andrea: Yeah, I, I love that anecdote. And by the way, that is an actual global bestseller made to state by the Heath Brothers. Fantastic book. And they talk about these, this thing that happening, I think it was in 1990, a psychology student asked two groups of people to play a game, toppers versus listeners. And if you were a topper, what you had to do was you just had to tap out to rhythms to famous songs on a table.

So think about very famous songs. I remember you asked me in the, the first time we had a chart, my, my workout songs, I'll talk about songs, but very famous songs, but instead of singing the songs, a topper, you just had to tap the rhythm on a table. That's it. And then if you're a listener, you just had to try and guess the songs.

Now, before the experiment [00:12:00] started, the student asked the tappers to estimate how many songs they thought that the listeners would have guessed. And they estimated 50%, 5 0. That's what they thought. Now, in reality, it was very different. The listeners only guessed two and a half percent of the songs. Two and a half versus 50%, massive difference.

Why?

Music: Yeah.

Andrea: Because if you are a tapper, you have knowledge. that the listeners don't have. If you're a tapper, you have the songs in your head. And so that's why for you, you find it very hard to understand why the listeners can't guess the songs. Can't understand. But if you're a listener, you don't have that knowledge.

You don't have the songs in your head. And so you do find it very hard. And that's how they describe what the Heath brothers say. And I agree with them, the number one problem in communication, the number one challenge, which is the curse of knowledge, the curse of knowledge, which is our inability To imagine what it means not knowing what we know [00:13:00] once we know something, we find it hard to imagine what it means for the audience not knowing what we know.

Again, Mikey, we're talking about the importance of getting that clarity and we need to find a way to get some sort of an external perspective for us to be able to do that. And by the way, the curse of knowledge we see everywhere we see between again, we were talking about books. We see between writers and readers, between politicians and voters, between sellers and buyers, between presenters and the audiences as well.

And this is the number one challenge, the course of knowledge.

Molly: Yeah, I mean, imagine, we should try that sometime, Mahi, just to see, because we have such, you know, different music tastes, but unless you put a category around it, it'd be like, alright, it's a Christmas song or something, like, it seems so difficult to imagine, like, Tap, tap, tap, tap.

Jingle bells, you know, it's like you're not going to get that unless you have some kind of entryway or foundation of the knowledge. And that's such a good analogy for presenters and audience members, especially for like someone in [00:14:00] a keynote circuit or something like that where they might not have previous knowledge of your work and how you're supposed to communicate.

The content of your story and the call to action as well, just from a completely blank slate.

Andrea: Absolutely. And Molly, that's exactly the key point. Of course, it always depends on the audience. We need to start with them. The foundation is a good understanding of who the audience is. Or who the audience is, and when we say who the audience is, okay, for example, what's their level of education?

What's their level of knowledge about your subject? Are they experts? Are they not experts? Especially if they're not experts, especially if they don't know all the things that you know, then we need to be even more careful about this challenge.

Mikey: Andrei, I had a question about, cause you've seen it and you've, you've won awards for virtual presenting, the differences between in person and virtual.

We know like, as far as the delivery goes, obviously that's, that's very different. To your point about like focusing on the message as [00:15:00] well. Are there any nuances, like as someone's preparing a message, would that impact, you know, would, would virtual versus in person impact how they're crafting that message?

Andrea: There's one thing in particular from a message perspective, there's a, there's a key difference. Now, Any presentation, whether it's in person or online, it has to feel like a conversation and that's because, and then I'll tell you what the difference is online, but in general, research tells us that when we are presenting in person, for example, the audience's attention tends to drop after about every 10 minutes or so, more or less, and that means that As you, if you, if you are presenting for more than 10 minutes, then as you get to 10 minutes, then it's as if you need to buy the audience's attention back.

And we do that. One of the things, it's not the only thing, because we do it, we keep the audience's attention high, again, with a message, with a clarity, with [00:16:00] storytelling examples, analogies. But in addition to that, you also want to include moments of interaction. A presentation should always be like a designed conversation, which means the audience needs to feel that they are building the presentation live together with you.

But in reality, it's a designed conversation, which means that you as the presenter, you have designed those moments of interaction in advance. So that means that once you've developed your message, the last step should be. Going back to your storyline, going back to your message, and ask yourself, okay, from, is there a story, no, is there a question that I could ask from time to time to keep the audience's attention height?

The audience's attention is a bit like the sand in an hourglass. If you think about the sand in an hourglass, it runs out after a few minutes, but it's very easy to just flip it over and start again. The same goes with the audience's attention, which means that it will run out after a few minutes, and [00:17:00] again, if it's in person, after 10 minutes, more or less, but it's very easy to flip it over and start again, which means, That it should not be up to the audience to work hard to pay attention.

It's up to you as the presenter to work hard to gain their attention and to keep it high. And the best way to do that is to include moments of interaction. Now, that doesn't mean that we need to use technology. It could be as simple as asking a question which is either connected to what you've just said, or maybe a question which is connected to what you're planning to say next.

Now, Mikey, going back to your question, online, we know that it's even harder to keep the audience's attention high for obvious reasons. Sometimes we are giving an online presentation, we can't even see people are not with the video on, for example, we can't, we don't have that control. And so the 10 minute rule becomes the three to five minute rule, which means that if you are running a webinar, for example, if you're [00:18:00] giving an online presentation, very few people do that.

But yes, every three to five minutes, you should find an opportunity to create a moment of interaction. And that's, that's a key difference between in person and online presentations from a message perspective. It's so good. I'm going to get that hourglass tattooed on my wrist

Mikey: or something like, flip it over big Mike.

Yeah.

Molly: Flip it over. But I love, I love how you said that too, Andrea. Like a presentation should be. Conversational, not a monologue, because the audience is a member, this is not, this is, I think presentations are that interesting thing where you really do have to break the fourth wall, if not literally, then like, they need to be a part of, they need to be, you need to be considering the audience, like in your creation, in your delivery, everything, contratact, You don't have to like call them up on stage necessarily, like an improv act.

It's just about including and breaking that wall again and again so that they could be part of it. It's really, that's a really good metaphor. I know Mikey wants to ask about some nerves, but I, before we [00:19:00] get there, I'm just curious about the three key skills. You cover this in your book about what to master with messaging, visuals, and delivery.

Yeah. You have a great analogy for this as well.

Andrea: Yeah, message, visuals and delivery. These are the three key skills you want to master. So even if in the book I only talk about the message side of things, because again, for me that's 80%, but then we do have a couple of other areas. One is the visual side of things.

Now, the obvious example is PowerPoint. I say PowerPoint, it could be any other presentation tool, it doesn't make any difference. And then you have the delivery side of things. Again, delivery, eye contact, body language, gestures, voice. All Message is what you say. Delivery is how you say it. It's not just what you say, it's also how you say it.

And then visuals is what you show if you do, when you said, and if any of these three key elements is missing, or if any of these three key elements, if we don't cover them effectively, because, for example, you don't have to [00:20:00] use visuals all the time, then you will find it hard to reach your objective. It's a bit like.

Going to a theater when you go to a theater you have the theater show has the screenplay again you were talking about the the fourth wall in acting a theater has the screenplay and that's the message that's the content of the show story also has actors and that covers the delivery side of things and the theater also has the set design.

And if any of these three key elements is missing, you will not enjoy your night at the theater. The same is true when you give a presentation, if any of these three key elements, either your message or your visuals, if you need them, because again, we don't have to use them all the time. Or your delivery, if any of them, if we don't cover them effectively, you will find it hard to reach your objective.

And so if people think that a presentation is just about putting together some slides, they've missed the point. A presentation is always so much more than that. It's our opportunity [00:21:00] to communicate our ideas, to do it well, so that we can achieve our objective, whatever that is. So that we can grow a business or increase our influence.

Or increase our reputation so that we can boost our profile so that we can, we can boost our career. I don't know what the objective is for everyone, but I'm sure that whatever it is, if we really think about it, it's always so, so much more than just putting together some slides.

Molly: Yeah, it's an experience.

You want to create an experience most times. I think there's certain instances, which maybe that's not true. But the scent design is so interesting because it's like also tonal and atmosphere and that in a way is like Like testing the av make sure the tech works That's what applies to those virtual and in person Making sure you know how to share your screen on zoom and go straight into the presentation Mikey, you taught me a little trick for that, you know Little things like that are really, can really, really go a long way.

Mikey: Andrea, curious about why [00:22:00] authenticity could potentially hold one back. Was that from the book?

Andrea: It is from the book. There's a chapter where I talk about it. And, and I know that it may be perceived as counterintuitive, but here's the thing. So many people, including. Presentation coaches, communication experts, they, they give advice like, Oh, you want to become a more effective presenter, more confident presenter.

Just, just be yourself, be authentic. Uh, just, just, just be yourself as if it's, that's it. That's, that's the magic solution. Now. Of course you want to be authentic. I would never encourage anyone to copy anyone else. You don't want to be the next Steve Jobs or the next Brene Brown or the next Simon Sinek.

You have to be yourself. Of course you want to. You be you is a great way, the best way to connect with an audience. But many people, what I find is many people use authenticity as an [00:23:00] excuse for not improving, for not changing. I'll just give you an example. If we think about the delivery side of things, when we work with a client, either one to one or in groups, we encourage them to go outside of their comfort zone and, and practice things like eye contact or body language and gestures.

And sometimes there's a bit of resistance and people say, ah, It doesn't, this is, it doesn't feel natural. It doesn't, it doesn't feel me. I don't want to do this. And to me, that is an example of using authenticity as an excuse for not changing. Now, for example, if you want to learn how to play the piano, And the teacher tells you, Molly, Mikey, you need to sit in a certain way, you need to have a certain posture, you need to move your hands, your fingers in a certain way.

Would you tell the teacher, no, I'm not going to do it because it doesn't feel authentic? No. If you want to learn how to play the piano, you just shut up and listen to what the teacher says. Oh, for, oh, I'll [00:24:00] give another one. If you secretly think that your, your friend's new baby is ugly, would you tell them just because you are authentic and part of that authenticity means that you want to, you are true to, to your values and you want to be honest and you, you tell the truth.

No, I'm pretty sure that you would tell them your baby is beautiful. I'm saying this just to say that there are, it's accepted, there are things in our situations in our lives where we choose not to be authentic because we know that there is a better alternative. And the better alternative is effectiveness.

We choose not to be authentic to be more effective. So again, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying. Don't be yourself. Yes, of course you want to be yourself. Of course you want to be authentic, but at the same time, If you really want to improve in this field, you also want to become the best authentic version of [00:25:00] yourself.

Mikey: That's so good, but it's incredible nuance. And I love that. And I love also to understand the nuance between practicing versus rehearsing. I would. Frankly, I, I need to understand this. Can't wait to hear it. Sure.

Andrea: What many people do in preparation for a presentation is, they don't practice at all, they just wing it.

They go there, they deliver it for the first time in front of the audience, and they hope for the best. Fingers crossed. Yeah. So that's what most people do, or many people. What many other people do is, When I ask, but do you rehearse your presentations? They say yes. And then I go a little bit deeper and what I understand is that they think they are rehearsing.

What they're doing is they're practicing. Both are important, but it's not the same thing. And we need to do both. Now, practicing means, for example, say that you have some slides and then you open up your presentation tool, you go through your slides. As you do, You start thinking about, okay, here, when I get to this line, I will be talking [00:26:00] about these and I'm going to share this example.

And then when I get to here, that's, I'm going to interact with the audience. So you think about what to say. Maybe as you do, you realize that you need to make a few changes. You go back and you make those changes. That's a practice session and it's useful but it's not enough. Rehearsing is a different level of preparation.

Rehearsing means repeating your presentation out loud. Not in your head. Out loud from the very beginning to the very end. without stopping as if there is a real audience in front of you. That's what confident presenters do. Also, great presenters rehearse in the real world in conditions. It could be either physical conditions, if possible.

Sometimes it's not, but at the very least, mental conditions, which are as close as possible to the real conditions. And that's the difference between practicing and rehearsing.

Molly: Yeah, it's a little more like dress getting, you know, I was a theater kid, so it's like the dress [00:27:00] rehearsal thing was like, What did it actually feel like to stand up?

And then maybe even like prepare, like, you know, are you standing on like a little bit of a step so that you can feel what it's like to look down a little there's an audience below you. I think like body embodying like what it's going to feel like to stand is really important. I remember Mikey when I was talking to you about officiating my brother's wedding I kept having to figure out how to hold my notes so that it was like I'm looking at them but this is how I'm like also like making sure I'm not just reading the whole time and that was a really important piece to practice of like I had to stand and hold it And I'm like, one hand or two hands, just like, if you're doing something with your body on stage, like you have to practice, you have to rehearse that.

I like that. This is definitely a differentiation.

Andrea: Molly, I'll give you another very practical example, which is very similar to what you said. What I have at home, for example, is I have a fake microphone. As a toy, because I know that if I'm going to speak at an event and I, and I will always ask, okay, [00:28:00] first of all, will you give me a microphone?

If so, what kind of microphone, if they tell you that they give you the, like a standard microphone that you need to hold with your hand, then in an example of rehearsing in the real world means that I will be here at home rehearsing my presentation was standing with my fake microphone. Because then if you have a microphone in one hand, on one hand, and then you have your click on the other hand.

Say for example, that you've never rehearsed this way. Then you get, you get there, you get on stage and then you've been rehearsing with your hands free and then you get there and both hands are not free because you need to use one for the clicker, one for the microphone. It changes the dynamic and you want to be prepared.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mikey: I, we, we had our retreat this summer. We let our, our team give a lightning talk if they wanted to. And we had a confidence monitor. It was like down on the floor. What I noticed, because this was a first time using a confidence monitor for a lot of us, a lot of the pictures of us speaking, we're looking down at the [00:29:00] freaking confidence monitor, and certainly other places I've spoken, when there wasn't a monitor, I was probably, there's a lot of pictures of me, like, looking at the screen.

How do you avoid that? Like, what's the best way to prepare so that You know where you're at in the presentation, but you're still making that good eye contact.

Andrea: The key is awareness. It's not the only thing, but that's the first step awareness. First of all, we need to be aware of what's going on. Now, for example, Mikey, you said that you became aware of this because you saw some pictures or the recording afterwards, that that's what gave you awareness.

You need to find a way to get awareness. If you are not aware of what's going on. It doesn't matter if you practice because you will keep practicing the same things. So nothing will change or very little will change. If you are aware of what's going on, then it's just a matter of practice. There's no magic solution.

It's practice, practice, practice. But I can promise you, if you practice with that awareness, then it's going to be easier to make the change that we want to make. Now, how do we get [00:30:00] awareness? A couple of things come to mind. The obvious one is you want to work with someone who can help you. A presentation coach gives you awareness, for example.

Today, it's very easy, especially if we think about online presentations, or you can get the recording of in person presentations as well, then watch the recording. I know that for some people, for many people, it can feel uncomfortable, but that gives you awareness. You can see what's going on. You can see that you're looking at the comfort screens.

You can see that you're looking back. You're looking at this at the screen and you give your back at the audience. That's what you need. You need awareness. And then from there, we can, we can start working on changing what needs to be changed.

Molly: Yeah. Andrea, we love asking people about we are framework as agnostic.

Mikey's words. We've just said that. Where, but we love learning these tools because they, different frameworks work for different people. Certainly. We love Phil Wagnall's, you know, audience transformation roadmap, which again, we'll leave that in the spice cabinet. But are there any frameworks that you [00:31:00] lean on and tell us, tell us about them?

Andrea: No, by the way, I agree with Markay. We do have frameworks and, and, and we use them when we work with our clients, but we don't think that unless you follow that particular framework, you are not going to be able to give it representative. You are not going to be able to become an effective presenter. Of course you can.

It's, it's a model, it's a framework that works for us and it makes it easy for our clients as well. But there are many other. similar frameworks. In the end, everything comes from Aristotle. Aristotle was the first one more than 2000 years ago, who gave us the building blocks of effective communication.

And now we all find a way to package those, those insights that come from Aristotle. Anyway, so you mentioned a feels. ATR, the audience transformation roadmap, which is, which is great. It's a, it's a creativity technique for you to identify lots of interesting ideas that then potentially you can include in the content of your presentation [00:32:00] and that's a very high level.

It works like this. Imagine this, you've got two columns before the presentation and after the presentation. And essentially you want to ask yourselves a few questions, both before and after. The first question is, you think about your audience, you think about your subject, what does my audience know about my subject, about my topic before my presentation, and you come up with a few ideas, or it could also be, what is it that they don't know about it, you may want to change that, and then you go down, what does my audience believe, or feel, or, we can also, Keep it simple.

What do they think? It's not just what they know, but what do they think? What do they believe? What do they feel about my subject? And again, you come up with a few ideas and then we go down. The last question is actions. What are they doing today in relation to your subject? Or again, it could also be what is it that they're not doing today?

And you come up with a few ideas. You may want to change those actions. And then you repeat the process, but [00:33:00] after the presentation, and we like to start with the actions. So the key question is, what do you want your audience to do as a result of your presentation? And then you go back up. Okay, once we know this, we want them to do this.

What do they need to believe? Or what do they need to feel? What do they need to think? For them to take those actions and then finally, OK, what are the important pieces of information that they need to know for them to make it more likely that they will believe and feel what you want them to do? They will do what you want them to.

So that's in a nutshell. That's the audience transformation roadmap from there. There's a little bit more into it. And if you want to link fields talk where we go, it breaks it down in more detail. But essentially, the answers to these questions will then determine that they will define at least at a high level the content of your presentation.

And this is a useful brainstorming [00:34:00] technique that will allow you to come up with. The objective here at the beginning of the presentation process is quantity of ideas, not quality. You will come up with lots of ideas. And then you can go from quantity to quality.

Molly: Yeah, it's kind of like creating a domino effect for your presentation.

So like, if this, then this, if this, then this. Let it inform one, let one thing inform the other. And not like just picked out of a hat, you know. What is your ABC of preparation?

Andrea: ABC, ABC stands, that's another framework. It stands for Audience Burning Needs Context. And that's the foundation of the presentation process.

Okay. Before you do anything else, what many people do is, again, they just open a PowerPoint and put together some slides. That's the first thing most people do when preparing a presentation. What other people do is, they start thinking about their message, what they want to communicate, which is already much better than just opening a PowerPoint, but even that is [00:35:00] not the very first thing you want to do.

When you give a presentation, it's always, you are communicating with someone. And so we need to start with them. When you give a presentation, it's their presentation, not yours. So it's the audience's presentation. Now think of a presentation as a present. If I want to give a present, it's your present, not mine.

And so I need to make sure that I know you, so that I can buy something that you like. Presentation is very similar. When you give people a presentation, it's that presentation, not yours. And so you need to make sure that you know your audience definitely before you open up PowerPoint, but also before you start thinking about your message.

And DABC is a practical framework for you to do that, which means that you need to take some time and ask yourselves some questions about these three things. Audience, who are the key people in the audience? Burning needs. What do they really need? What do they expect from your presentation? What challenges do they have?

[00:36:00] How do those challenges relate to your activities? Do they have any concerns about your activities, burning needs? And then context. Context are things like, what's the duration of your presentation? Is it one to one? Is it one to many? Mikey, you asked about online versus in person. Is it online? Is it in person?

If it's online, what tool are you going to use? How are you going to use it? How and when are you planning to interact? Talk about interactions with the audience. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying, again, that if you don't do that, that you can't create a great presentation. You can, but the risk is that you develop a fantastic presentation, but for the wrong audience.

Only, do I have time to just briefly, in one minute, tell you an example, give you an example that illustrates this point? Yeah? Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. So some time ago, we worked with a client. Her name is Marie from Paris in France, and Marie is an executive. She's an expert in leadership, and she was invited by an [00:37:00] association in Finland to give a talk about leadership.

And she was super excited. It was one of the first international speaking opportunities. And so she prepared really well. Remember the three circles, message, the three areas, message, visuals, and delivery.

Molly: Yeah, set design.

Andrea: Yeah, exactly. She knew her message. She told us that she had prepared 505050 beautiful slides.

And also again, Mikey practice versus rehearsal. She rehearsed as well. And so she was ready to go. She flew to Finland the day before the conference that arrived there on the day half an hour before the audience because she wanted to make sure that she had time to set things up. And when she was about to connect her laptop to the screen, she realized that there was no screen.

So a little bit of panic, she went and asked the organizers, assuming that there And they would say, Oh, sorry, Marie, now we're going to fix this for you. What they did instead was they started laughing. [00:38:00] And so she says, why are you laughing? And they say, look, Marie, you want to show 50 slides, but actually you've been invited to give a talk to the association in Finland of blind people.

Molly: Oh my gosh. I think I've heard you tell this story. This is so, this is so good. Oh fuck, that's the reveal.

Andrea: Blind people. Yeah, for sure. It's not the first time I'm sharing this story. And you see, Marie was very well prepared. Apart from one thing, she didn't know her audits, she didn't even take the time to translate the name of the association from Finnish to French, and she would have realized that perhaps there was no need to have 50 beautiful slides.

So what this means for all of us is that before we do anything else, the foundation of the presentation process is to start with the audience. And again, Molly, going back to your question, the ABC is a practical framework that allows you to do that. Audience, [00:39:00] Bernie needs context.

Molly: Yeah. No, it bears repeating.

I love that story. It's just like so exemplifies what it needs to cover first and foremost. It's just ridiculous. And I'm sure Marie has learned that lesson for sure. I'm so sure. Mikey, I think it's time. To get into the Spice Cabinet. Yeah,

Mikey: let's do it. Let's do it. Now, I'm just curious about trends in presentation coaching landscape.

Like, I know there's historical, like, humans will never change. Like, there's always gonna be the low hanging fruit things that presenters are always going to do, and you'll always correct them. I'm curious, are there any things that are trending right now that are sort of, you're noticing for the first time, or, or are they just the, the long standing mistakes we run into?

In terms

Andrea: of trends, I can't not mention artificial intelligence and artificial intelligence is, I don't know about you guys, but not just from a communication, public speaking perspective, but in general, I've never seen something like [00:40:00] that in my life, a technology so impactful. Now, having said that, I don't think that AI is going to change everything like public speaking forever.

On the one hand, it's super, super powerful, and I use it. I use it every day. I use it for a business. I use it for my public speaking, for with our own clients. So I think it's very effective, very useful. However, it has to be that. plus you, plus human. And the reason why I think that that's the case is because, I'll give you an example, Jeff Bezos says that, he said famously that, he's often asked, what do you think is going to change in the next 10 years?

And he says, no one ever asked me, what do you think is not going to change in the next 10 years? And he thinks that the second question is much more useful because he says, if you focus on the things that don't change, you will be [00:41:00] successful. Now, in the case of Amazon, they know that 10 years from now, People will still want cheap prices, fast delivery, and massive selection.

They know it. So they know that if they keep focusing on those things, 10 years from now, they will be successful. Now, in communication, it's the same thing. There are things that change and things that don't change. The things that change are tools and technology. 50 years ago, we didn't have PowerPoint. A few years ago, we didn't have Zoom.

A few, a few, a couple of years ago, we didn't have ChatGPT and all these other tools. And these things will change. That's inevitable but what will never change at the fundamental principles of communication in your case my key molly let's say that 10 years from now you give a great presentation at a conference and then after the presentation someone from the audience comes to you and they say my key molly that was a great presentation.

I just wish that your [00:42:00] message was not so simple for me to understand. Or I just wish that your storyline was not so clear for me to follow. I just wish that your message was not so original, so enjoy book. Or maybe Mikey, Molly, fantastic talk. I just wish. That your message was not so relevant to me and my needs,

Molly: that

Andrea: will never happen.

And it will never happen because these are the fundamental principles of communication. Again, don't get me wrong, I do think that AI has a place. And I think we have to use it. If we don't use it, we are stupid. That's what I think. Also in communication. But yeah, it has to be in combination with the human side of things.

Because if not, then something really important fundamental is missing.

Molly: Gotta be strategic collaboration. I like that. Thanks for sharing. I am always curious to see what people's take on AI is. Andrea, [00:43:00] for someone that's looking to potentially present more in a, yeah, professional setting, keynote setting.

Or for anyone also potentially thinking they want to write a book, do you have any advice for those people?

Andrea: A couple of different things. When it comes to presenting, just do it. Practice, practice, practice. Present, public speaking is a skill that requires knowledge and technique. It's a bit like learning how to play a new musical instrument or learning how to play a new sport.

We need knowledge and technique. And every time we have this combination, we want to do something and we've got this combination of knowledge and technique, what really makes a difference is practice, practice, practice, practice. We can read books, we can watch, we can listen to amazing podcasts like yours, but then it comes to a time where we need to put it into practice.

We just need to do it. That's one thing. When it comes to writing a book, I've just finished reading On Writing by Stephen [00:44:00] King, the book On Writing, and he says that the advice he has for aspiring writers is, he sometimes is asked, how do you write your books? How do you write maybe like 90, 000 words for a book?

And he says, one word at a time. Just write one word at a time. So it's a practical level. What that means is, like, for example, what I've done, and I don't want to take me as an example, but when I wrote the book for, for some time, for several weeks, maybe even like two or three months, then I blocked out time in my diary in the morning.

At the very least, it was one hour every single day, at the very least. Sometimes it was also two hours. Sometimes it was the full morning. It's writing. Writing one word at a time. And then if you do that for a few weeks, for a few months, then you will get to 40, 000 words, 50, 000 words, and that's what you need to have a business book.

Molly: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, build it into the structure. I haven't heard that quote in a while, but I think that one. Just [00:45:00] rings true. The most simple proverbs of writing, you know, or actually creating anything. It's just like one word at a time. Very helpful.

Mikey: Andrea, you, you interviewed Jeremy Connell Waite, and he's a guy I've been following for the last like two or three years, and everything he puts out on LinkedIn just blows my mind, and it reminds me of you.

Like, he's as curious about the holistic, Everything, communication stuff. You had a conversation with him, right? I recently on your podcast and like, curious, like, what was that like?

Andrea: Yeah, it was, it was fantastic. Uh, I have the same opinion of him, Mikey. He's, he's mind blowing for, for me, he's one of the most.

Interesting people out there when it comes to communication, public speaking, his, his insights and ideas are fascinating. And I did tell him during the conversation, one of the things I love about him and his work is that in a positive way, he's obsessed. You can see that there's an obsession there. And also [00:46:00] he doesn't like to stay at a high level.

Like, for example, those communication experts who give you advice, like. Just be yourself or be authentic and everything will be fine. Now he, he goes deep, he goes like very, very deep. He does to spend time. He's also, he thinks, I, I think I, I dunno if, if that's the case, but that's my understanding that public speaking for him is a bit of, is a mix of art and science.

Mm-hmm. And if he thinks that I agree with him, for me, it's a bit of, it's a mix of art and science. Of course, it's not, it's not rocket science. There's an artistic element there, but we also need to understand what science tells us about what works and what doesn't work when we communicate our ideas. And he does that very well.

Molly: Yeah. Andrea, I found some of the folks you shared last time. I copied them in our chat. A little document we're looking at here, but uh, some of the greats, you know, Gar, [00:47:00] Gar Reynolds, Nancy Duarte resources. Of course we've already mentioned it, this podcast, Stupid Damn Geeks Made to Stick. And some of your favorite TED Talks, including Brené Brown as well.

So any, any fresh names or anyone that's kind of surprised you in the last year you want to link?

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, I'll give you, I'll give you a couple, a couple of names. One is, and he's very famous, uh, but I discovered for some, or maybe I revisited his, you were talking about TED Talks before, and I rediscovered it maybe a year ago or a couple of, a few months ago, Benjamin Zander, if I remember his name correctly.

He's a classical, um, I don't know how, how his, what his role is, is called in English. He does classical music. And he gave this TED talk on the power of, I think, I think the title is the transformative power of classical music, and it's a great talk. Again, Morley, you were talking about the fact that a presentation often, perhaps not always, but often has to be an experience, and it does create an [00:48:00] experience.

That's cool. He combines like speaking and playing the transformative power of classical music. Benjamin Zander, if I remember his name correctly.

Molly: Mikey, we'll have to TED talk.

Andrea: Yeah.

Molly: TED talk in that one.

Andrea: Yeah, that's okay. Also For example, my business mentor, his name is, it's two co founders, the company is Dent, it's called Dent, Dent Global, and his name is Daniel Prisley, and you can find lots of things online, Daniel Prisley.

I like his communication very much and I'll give you a practical reason why that's the case. He uses analogies all the time. And we know analogies are super powerful in communication. Like this is a bit like that. A is a bit like B. When you connect something that the audience is not yet familiar with, and that's your idea, your concept.

When you connect that to something that the audience already knows and understand, when you make that connection, [00:49:00] that's when learning happens. The best, and this is something I've learned from John Pollock. I also, Mikey, I also interviewed on the Ideas on Stage podcast, John Pollock. He used to be one of the speech writers for Bill Clinton.

And he wrote a book called Shortcut. And he says that an analogy is a shortcut. It gets you to your destination, your communication goal faster. And he told me that the best way to explain something new, especially if that new thing is complex or technical, is to attach it to something that the audience already knows and understands.

And he also told me that in any debate, And it comes from a political background, but we can, we can apply the same thing in communication in general. In any conversation, the one who has the best analogy wins. And Daniel Presley uses analogies all the time in communication.

Molly: Yeah, that makes so much sense.

I love the idea of it as a shortcut to where your destination is. Very cool. Which is an

Mikey: analogy, by the way. Yeah,

Molly: [00:50:00] right. Makes sense.

Mikey: Molly, just just loaded up the the reading list. I'm stoked about this. I

Molly: know, I know. Andrea, we

Mikey: know it's getting late over there. It's about happy hour time. So we have to know, I think last time your walkout song Was Queen, Don't Stop Me Now, is that, is that still what you're rocking or have you made any

Andrea: updates?

It hasn't changed, and I shouldn't say, I shouldn't say it will never change, you never know, but for now it hasn't changed. Don't Stop Me Now by Queen, yep.

Molly: I love it. It's so, it's so good. It's such a hype song. And um, we'll certainly link all of your, you know, ideas on stage, where to find you. Do you LinkedIn, is that the best way if anyone wants to send you a message? Don't

Andrea: Yeah, LinkedIn is the, LinkedIn is the only channel I, I, I, I, I actually use. Perfect.

Awesome.

Molly: Well, Andrea Piccini, author of Confident Presenter, amazing presentation coach. If you need some one on one help and just [00:51:00] some inspiration, there's tons of great content you've put out on the internet, Andrea. And we're so appreciative that we, our paths have crossed again. So thank you so much for making the time.

Any, um, parting shots for PresentationNation before we, before we let you go?

Andrea: No, no, thank you. Thank you, Molly. Thank you, Mikey, for giving me another opportunity. As I told you in the beginning, it was, I had a great time last time. I had an even better time now, so thank you. Thank you very much again. And now we're old friends.

Mikey: Friend of the show. All right, everybody, thanks for listening. And until we meet again, keep on pitching.