TED Talkin’: Christopher Cummings on assessing risk and creating dark magic with communication

167 TED Talkin'_Chris Cummings Risk Communication

Mikey: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Presentation Thinking, the Storyteller Study Club. This is Mikey Meki, uh, your co-host and founder of Ghost Ranch Communications. Molly Gagan, my co-host. Your favorite? What's going on?

Molly: Hey, presentation Nation. Mikey, we might have a new AKA To add to the Storyteller Study Club is Storytelling Magic.

Oh, is this a spell casting?

Mikey: It might be. Might be. Magic The Gathering

Molly: be,

Mikey: yeah.

Molly: I've, I've only dabbled once or twice, but today we have a really cool Ted talking episode to dig into, and if you are just now joining us for the first time, Mikey and I study storytelling and presenting, and of course that has led us down a bit of a rabbit hole of.

[00:01:00] Watching his TED talk and analyzing the crap out of it. We've got a couple pillars of storytelling we like to hit on, and today we have a fun one called The Dark Magic of Communication, how we Manipulate Others. Yeah, by none other than a Mr. Christopher Cummings, who is a like doctorate, social scientist, researcher, studies the health and risk communication.

Very, very interesting. Yeah. We've never had this perspective

Mikey: before. Right. And when did this, this, uh, his TEDx was in Singapore, I think. I think he was a, yeah, he was in

Molly: Singapore.

Mikey: He was a professor at the time was mm-hmm. At NA Yang Technology University. Mm-hmm. NTU. So it was a TEDx event over there?

Molly: Yeah.

Mikey: Was it just before the pandemic?

Molly: This is a couple years old. This is, I think six or seven years old at this point. 20 17, 20 18. But we're bringing, like we've watched some older ones and it's interesting to see what's relevant and what's not. And this one I thought was so fascinating because he's literally a health and risk communicator.

Yeah. And I [00:02:00] am dying for him to come back to the 10th stage post covid and hear what he has to say about a, a global pandemic and how. And how his talk would've evolved. Yeah. And, um, because it's definitely, yeah, I'd say it's more relevant than ever. What do you think, Mikey?

Mikey: Uh, I agree. So, hey, if you wanna watch it, we'll give you a quick, uh, 19 minutes here.

Editor will, if you wouldn't mind, get on mind. Google, uh, the Dark Magic of Communication, Christopher L. Cummings, or hit the, the link in the show notes and we'll be right back. All right, welcome back. We're back. Thank you. All right. I think we've all watched the TEDx now. The dark magic of communication. I, I love it.

Let's, let's get right through it. The opening line. Communication is a lot like magic. I, I love that. Like, that's like what the talk is about. Yeah. This dude, I, I think he was a phenomenal speaker.

Molly: Yes. Yeah. Great opening line. The hook is everything. I was like, okay, high warts, let's go. Honestly, that's what I mean, Mikey, you know, I'm always looking for more TED Talks.[00:03:00]

Of course. So honestly, the title is what got me to click on it. So I have to say that that works for me. Yeah. In my pee brain, you know? And he goes on with that opening line and says, our stories are our myths and our legends teach us that magic can be used for good or evil. So it's kinda like setting this up of like.

Yeah. Communication's like magic. Like what do, what can you great do with it? It's a bit of that, uh, great power, great responsibility kind of thing,

Mikey: right? Yeah. Yeah. I think he did, um, a lot of the mechanics, like it's, you know, it's a 19 minute talk, 20 minute talk. And so he, he states his goal for the, for the talk, which I, I think is good, best practice, like kind of a signpost, like my goal for today, we're gonna understand the roles of communication so that we can use communication strategically.

That's cool. Yeah. Like we can. We can like hire our attention to follow along with that. 'cause it sounds pretty important, right?

Molly: Yeah. And this is, he does all that by minute, like just over a minute. Yeah. So he gets, it's like a kind of buckle up. You've got a lot of, he's got a lot of information to share and he goes on kind of in that after setting up the intro I would call it.

[00:04:00] He says that magic takes place in three forms. If you look across like all the stories, the legends, et cetera. There's number ones like, and, and of course good things coming throughs, Mike. He says It's great to remember exactly. There's the magic of creation, which is kind of like, you think of that magician pulling a rabbit out of hat, like, you know, something's coming outta nothing, and there's a shared understanding between Yeah, you and what whoever's creating.

It's like that just, that just created, it just came outta nowhere, right? Came outta nowhere. Then there's the magic of transformation, turning something into something else. So something that already exists, being changed. He says, he looks at that as like the physical process of communication, like our bodies and our brains go through such an elaborate process to share understanding.

So he's saying words, it's making sound waves, it's reaching the audience's eardrums. You know, he goes through all the, like that bodily process, which is kind of, we've done a couple of talks like that, Mikey, where we hear from scientists of like. The sounds of storytelling, the what happens in your brain, your brain on storytelling, you know?

Yeah. And that was kind of like the, the si it made me think of that version of [00:05:00] communication and storytelling. Yeah.

Mikey: But his was very descriptive. He talks about like, and yeah, he's hilarious. And, but he talks about like from all the mechanics, like inside your head, down, through your nerves, through your muscles to produce this AirWave and then into someone else's head through those.

You know, those like seven bones that you learned about inside your ear in health class or whatever. So yeah, he's, he's really funny. But he kind of paints with words like you start to see it, right?

Molly: Yeah, definitely. He's very emphatic. Is that, yeah, emphatic. He's like gesturing with his hands and his big ears.

And then he says this third sign post, which is the one he wants to focus on most. Which again, this is a great setup. Like set up three milestones and tell us which one you're gonna like be double clicking on. Super useful framework and simple there. Yeah. But he says it's the magic, the communication of control, making others do our bidding so people think of maybe in a cliche kinda way.

Hypnotism. Yeah. You know, or like having someone kind of be under a spell or having like communication come to you and you're, it, it makes you do something you don't, you aren't even aware of kind of this unconscious like [00:06:00] response. And he says that, hi for his work as a health communicator. And as a risk communicator, he's fascinated with that idea, that communication can, can do that kind of magic.

Yeah. And that there are things we can do with that communication that don't even have you thinking about what you're doing or responding.

Mikey: Right. And then textbook show, don't tell. He's like, here, lemme show you. Right. And then he, he puts up, he had good use of slides. He has like two silhouette images up on the screen behind him.

One on the left is like the sharp, pointy, like spiky kind of star thing. And then the one on the right, there's this wavy, amoebic, round, bubbly looking shape bubbly

Molly: guy. Yeah.

Mikey: And he said, yeah. What is, what's he say? Molly?

Molly: Yeah. He's like, which one is called Kiki. And which one of these is called Boba. And he really like emphasizes Kiki and Boba and against these two shapes as he's like, all right, everyone say it with me.

What's the one on the left? And everyone's like. Kiki, the real sharp, pointy one, and everybody says boba for the second one without any, you know, any other context or anything. He's like, wow, like how did I do that? You know? And [00:07:00] he says, this is this process of, and we've heard about this a little bit with like voice co vocal coaches and stuff.

I'm like, he, it's a synesthetic ideation where you're thinking about the pronunciation of words. Mm-hmm. Because one is a bit rounder. It's like it aligns more with that bulba sound, which is softer and a rounder. Enunciation. Yeah. And then the Kiki has a larger pitch and fall like so, which makes you think of like a sharp and spiky thing.

So

Mikey: yeah. So is that a display of how a simple visual can actually control what we're thinking? That's, that's what it was, right? Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Molly: Because you're like, you would look at that and you'd be like, if you were to predict, uh, I think most people maybe I'd love to see the study or whatever, but.

You would be like, yeah, that one seems like Boba. That one seems like Kiki. Yeah. And you'd have no, and you'd have to explain why. Like, and it'd be, it'd be hard to kind of put a pin on exactly what those are.

Music: Yeah.

Molly: And so that he, he hits a great exercise with his Yeah. How people can be. I. Control, not controlled, but you people can be predictable [00:08:00] as well and you can kind of predict how people are gonna be feeling about stuff.

And so he then he introduces a bit more into his work. He's like, let me show you. He's like, I don't wanna scare you, but I have a algorithm to show you kinda a math equation. He thought that was funny. And um, he puts up like his algorithm, which is like. R equals F or M times

Mikey: P. P,

Molly: right? Something that Factor of def.

Factor of, yeah. Risk is

Mikey: a function of magnitude, times probability. And then he had this like little matrix where he shows like low magnitude, low probability, high magnitude, high probability, and a paper cut. High probability, low magnitude, big deal. Yeah. Plane crash. Super scary, but highly unlikely. Blah, blah, blah.

And what was the highest one is like heart disease, which is like high probability. High magnitude. It's the number one killer in Yeah. America, at least maybe the world.

Molly: But it was interesting and he kind of flips that at the end. He saves that cardiovascular disease for last, because he's asking the audience like, which of these gets the most attention in the media though?

Like you hear [00:09:00] about plane crashes and I mean, yeah, at the time of recording, I know this is happening more often, but I mean this is, you know, it's very, very low statistics. Yeah. You'll be involved in a play crash. Whereas the probability of unit cardiovascular disease for any number of factors is actually lot higher.

And so that's, but and that's then the stakes are, they're the magnitude of like, the level of how it can affect you is higher too. Yeah. So he's really interested as he, as he emphasizes, again, as a health communicator, like what gets attention and what's getting talked about for this perceived level of fear.

Yeah. And that's when he brings in kind of this, this next pivot for the rest of the talk, he's like. You know, people don't understand risks like experts do, and he says that in a less patronizing way, I guess, but. But he's like, there's outrage and there's fear that create an affect on someone. And he's like, that's what I'm gonna spend the remaining of my time talking.

He has kinda been a little mile marker there. That's like halfway through, right? Yeah. Nine minute nine.

Mikey: And that's, this is kind of where I see it as the [00:10:00] the so what, right? Yes. Cool. You can manipulate people, you can, we can make people scared. This is so up and this is the like, here's why that really matters is because this whole thing called.

Affect, which is like a thing that happens to us, uh, when we're confronted with a stimulus, like totally, it can change how we act. So that is important. It has his strong implications.

Molly: Yeah. And then he does one of my favorite pers of the talk, which I just have to call out because he. He has so, such a fun example.

Music: Yeah.

Molly: And he, you know, he says that every organism experiences affect about like the stimulus and the environment around it. So he's like, if I'm a jellyfish in the ocean and he perceives to like be a floaty, like kind of does the SpongeBob arms like as a jellyfish. And dumb is floating one way and he does it for like a little bit too long, which is awkward.

And I just found that so funny. And then he is like, oh man, I hit a rock it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I have to like go the other way. So it's just demonstrating that like people are going about their lives, but things around them affect them.

Mikey: Yeah. Period. That's not that we jellyfish fish around based on things that we bump [00:11:00] into.

Right? We sure do. Yeah.

Molly: Yeah, totally. And every affect can be mapped on an emotional color wheel. He brings up that nice rainbow wheel that I'm sure people have seen if they've ever been in therapy. Even you, you know? Right. Or may you know, I think I've seen it in preschools too. Mike could be like, how does this make you feel?

I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling excited. I'm feeling sad. You like point to the colors. Mm-hmm. And he says that's something, one of the biggest drivers for people to act and people to change their behavior though, is fear.

Mikey: For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Molly: And that's kind of like the dun da da. So what kind of thing?

Mikey: Yeah.

Molly: And by now we're at minute 12. He's got like seven minutes left and we're getting deeper into that. So what I believe mm-hmm. Act two. Mm-hmm. And, uh, he gets, goes, gets into the, um, oh, well first, first he scares the audience and is like, let me give, let me give you an example and I'll, he like pauses for a strategic amount of time.

He's kinda looking away up at the screen and then he is like, like does the basic fear a jump scare? Yeah.

Music: And

Molly: he's like, you were scared for a sec. He kinda like, what was your response? Everybody gasped for a second, but then that you did a cognitive process of like, am I in a safe place? [00:12:00] Yeah. Yes. And then you laugh about it.

Laughter is often like associated with most anything, especially when it's like kind of awkward. Then he is like, but if I did that at 3:00 AM in your bedroom, it'd be a lot scary, you know, context, which is like full funny moment context and it's true. Where it's like, yeah, that would actually be a way different context.

Yeah. So it's all about the context. And now a message from our sponsors.

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Molly: And then he gets into his big story at the end. Mikey, take it

Mikey: away. Oh yeah. I mean he shows, yeah, talks about the eighties, talks about the cattle, cows, their brains were eating holes in themselves, basically even shows, like shows a gross picture. Yeah. Very gross picture of, of that. And talks about what scientists deemed this disease to be called, which was bovine sponge offor and CE falafel for year, whatever.

Yeah. And, um, he's like, yeah, say that. Try to say that a couple times. And he, he keeps doing it, which is impressive. But lo and behold, people weren't really scared of that. And maybe, uh, some journalist who's digging into this was like, scientists were starting to allude to, hey, if, if someone did eat. Cow that had this thing going on, it, it could potentially

Molly: be an

Mikey: issue.

Hurt people.

Music: Yeah.

Mikey: And a journalist decided, maybe we shouldn't talk about like what it is, but what it does, and called it Mad Cow Disease, which we all are familiar with, and kind of showed that that [00:14:00] little tweak modification of language was what caught on and it's what kind of instilled a lot of fear in people to, to affect, you know, avoidance and, and a little bit of concern.

Molly: And I love that reveal, Mikey. 'cause he tells this story really well. He's talking about like what was going on with the cows. People weren't reacting scared enough because like beef is I think the number one most consumed meat in the world. So it was like, it was definitely a big deal. But then when he reveals that, what that crazy big scientific name was called, mad Cow Disease, which even like every, I think every generation has had, its like a bout of being like, mad cow, don't buy the beef Mad cow.

Like there's been like bouts of it. I think like I even used it. This is a funny, uh, little anecdote I used that. For a student government campaign in high school, and me and my friend thought that it was really funny. We were annoyingly like quirky high schoolers and we were like, avoid mad cow disease, like vote for Molly and Kara.

Like that's how per, that's how pervasive to us. Right, right, right. It's just like very common language. So you know, [00:15:00] which one of these was like elicited a fear response and then maybe later became a butt of a joke, I suppose. But yeah, that's just, you need to like establish the right language so that people can understand.

Mm-hmm. To, uh, associate the appropriate fear level. Yeah.

Mikey: And then he kind of comes full circle back to those risks, his risk matrix, and he is got, now think of a lateral scale spectrum. Arrows left and right with a, a line right down the middle just says real risk right in the middle. And everything to the left is viewed as like, less dangerous than probably it should be.

It's, it's an attenuated risk. Things that we should actually fear a whole lot more should be talked up a bit more is. High calorie diets, radon, like things that they're actually pretty dangerous and maybe more common than we think versus on the other side, amplified risks. Things that are talked about probably way more than they should and And Y 2K was the example he talks about both those fighting.

Yeah. Child kidnapping by strangers he says is like actually, yikes. It's way more likely that it would actually be someone, you know. So, yeah. [00:16:00] That, um, unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately. Highly,

Molly: yeah. Yeah, totally. But it's just inter Yeah, absolutely. So he, he said part of his job is Esto trying to figure out where that middle line is, what's the real risk and how to communicate it safely to people.

Yeah. And it made me think of like applying it to, before we get into his, like major closing here, like applying that to the real world of like clickbait headlines and things that are trying to scare you of like, you know, there's always like a new take on being like. Coffee will kill you. Take every cup of coffee you drink, takes a day off your life kind of thing.

Yeah. Versus like, coffee makes you live longer. So I just, those are like,

Music: yeah.

Molly: Not necessarily the most, like that's a good example of like a clickbait headline that's just trying to get you in to read it. Mm-hmm. And probably isn't using the appropriate level of fear. This

Mikey: is, um, it, it reminds me of the challenger sales.

So if you're putting together like a sales pitch deck. Exactly. One of the, my. All time, like mentors. Chris Lynch, CMO. Like I remember he, he loves to kind of do the, the flip and one of his sales decks, I remember [00:17:00] it was to, to kind of rouse some fear in like a sales director or a CRO and it's like, hey, you know, everybody knows there's this 80 20 principle with sellers.

Like 80% of your revenue comes from your top 20% of sellers, right? And then the next slide is like, what if I told you it's like way worse than that? What if it's like 95% is coming from like your top 5%, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like what? And then flips into the deck is all about bringing, closing the gap, making more of those sellers at least hitting quota, you know?

Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. But it, I think I see that as like. The, the risk was attenuated and then he helped escalate it a bit. Um, and I think that fear is a, is a hell of an emotion.

Molly: Yeah. And we've used that as well. We've talked about that in the fear of like missing out for the inaction. Yeah. You know, when you're pitching someone something, you want them to take action.

A healthy dose of fear can go a long way. Like you don't wanna be doing the doomsday thing necessarily. Like I, yeah, right. I know we were working on like a climate deck a few months ago and it was like, yeah, we don't wanna like. That's not the driver that gets people into action is being [00:18:00] like, well, we only have this much time.

And the carbon's like, you know, adding up. So it's like you have to do something. There can be a little bit of fear, but you have to do something that's balanced so that they don't, it doesn't stun them into inaction. And yeah, they tune it out and it also doesn't overwhelm them into Yeah. Like,

Mikey: yeah, like, and, and then there's the danger of like over amplifying something that actually isn't, that, isn't, that it's not a real pain point for them.

Or they're like, nah. Then they're like, all right. This is you're trying to sell me something obviously that I don't need, which it's good

Molly: to have the pain points and the associated, uh, consequences of like not doing something right. Yeah. So then he has this amazing closing, I think, I forget who did the quote, but he first quote, he has on the visuals, one aspect of risk communication is figuring out how to scare people.

And the other component of risk communication is figuring out how to calm people down again. Huh. So I love that idea of like implementing that into like these first call sales decks being like, yeah, you kinda wanna be like, well, you don't do this, like, you're gonna lose this money and blah, blah, blah.

But like, we're here for you. Right? Like that's kind of, that's a lot of times of the arc. I [00:19:00] think you could follow transformation on some. Yeah. Yeah. It's a transformation. Yeah. I it. And that's a story. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's, I think there's so many ways you could see it in. Our presenting world, and certainly the journalistic world and how we can craft stories with, with risk.

Like what's at stake? What can you, yeah. What can you scare people into action by doing while also not being, um, over the top and inauthentic to like, what's going on, you know?

Mikey: Yeah. Awesome job. Christopher L. Cunningham. Cummings. Cunningham. Cumming. Cummings. Cummings.

Molly: Christopher Cummings. There we go.

Mikey: Yeah, my man.

You enjoyed it, okay. Yeah, we, we loved it and so. Story, screen and stage, you know, our, our th three circle then of, of an awesome presentation. Molly, what do you think was his strength story, screen stage?

Molly: I gotta say, I think one of my favorite aspects for him was the stage. I think he just had such, yeah. Uh, the emphatic and like had all these amazing, the jellyfish wiggle.

Yeah, the jellyfish wiggle, the scaring people participating. So I think his stage presence and his pace was [00:20:00] so good. I think his pace was probably a little fast because he had so much to say in 19 minutes if we were to run it through. Our, uh, yeah. Calculator. But I think his stage presence with his sparse visuals, just enough visuals.

Mm-hmm. And, um, some, some stock that was cheesy but like did the right thing, you

Mikey: know? Yeah, yeah.

Molly: I know you were upset about that. Outlined,

Mikey: you know, some 2017 little a PowerPoint typography that didn't, doesn't hold up today, but Uhhuh he did. That's a key. Honestly, I think he was a slide like pro. 'cause his timing, I wish we could have seen him all but.

He was hitting the timing perfectly. He had slide builds that were, it was really smart, wasn't overt stuffing any of the slides with text. Had just like spot on use of imagery when he needed it. So I thought that was actually, yeah, just like he's a pro through and through and I think his story top to bottom, I mean, he had like this full circle like.

Closure. He had a loop that he set up in the beginning. He called it back. He, he put a bow on it. Good red thread, [00:21:00] you know, throughout as well as like the rules of three, using concrete, like visuals in your head and you know, talking about those, the ear canals and presented

Molly: something. Examples like taking some relatively like complex scientific conceptual study stuff and making it really, yeah.

Approachable. I think some of the best I've seen.

Mikey: Did he have any like personal stories in there? It seemed like, I don't really remember that. No. No.

Molly: It wasn't too much about him. Yeah. Maybe we could, he's a little more of you, Christopher, but I, but I mean, I've listened to him talk for a while, so I'm same.

Yeah, I think you would be buddies. You, Mike and Christopher have a similar presenting style, which is just like, which I would, which I think is great. I would call it just like approachable. He's a doc.

Mikey: I mean, he's, he's a lot smarter than me. No, but I would hang out with him.

Molly: Yeah, me too. Now that we're in the spice cabinet, mighty, yeah, we will link.

We will link Christopher uh Christopher's talk, Christopher DMU, on LinkedIn because I gotta know what you think about Covid and maybe you can come join us on the cast and talk. I know Again, but we really enjoyed listening to Ted talk. I

Mikey: just follow him. I, yeah. Yeah. I hope he [00:22:00] is producing another keynote soon 'cause he absolutely was really fascinating.

Molly: And what would we think until then? Okay. What do we think Christopher Cummings. Fear and risk, or health communicator and social scientists. Yeah. What is his walkout sauce?

Mikey: Let me, let me ask, answer your question with one quick question, which is Sure. Did Christopher remind you of anyone? Like did he have a doppelganger that came to your head?

Yeah. Besides, he had had the dad energy of me. Yeah. He dad did.

Molly: Danny of you. But I, he did look like a celebrity, a little bit like someone I've seen. I, but I really can't place it. Tell me.

Mikey: Okay. The one, the one that hit me was. Chris tki, Pete from the Bear. You know, like the brother-in-law who's like hilarious and adorable.

Yes. Yes, but like a very, like a, like a PhD version of that guy. It's like someone you really wanna hang out with. But it's

Molly: funny. Yeah.

Mikey: Tall

Molly: ho hopefully that being bullied by his in-laws like the bear. I thought they were

Mikey: so with that in mind, mind Brother from the Bear, I was like, okay, the bear.

Christopher, do you watch the Bear? Whisk Wilco song from the Bear [00:23:00] Spiders. Perfect.

Molly: Oh gosh. He, he,

Mikey: what? What did you have in your head? Something? Probably more all you know I was doing

Molly: something so literal at first. Evil Woman, but ELO.

Mikey: Hmm.

Molly: I thought that was kind of fun. 'cause you know, using this. Using the magic for good and evil. Yeah,

Mikey: that's smart.

Molly: And then, yeah, I thought that, but I actually think he could be an ELL fan, so I'm gonna keep it, I'm gonna keep it for now until we hear from him. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, really interesting talk, Christopher.

If you publish a book. We'd read it. Yeah. Okay. You have two, two fans at least

Mikey: right on.

Molly: Great. Anything else in the spice cabinet, Mikey?

Mikey: No, I don't think so. Yeah, this is a, this short, short and snappy one. But y'all, if, if you're into watching these TEDxs or TED talks or any other like keynotes or random recordings of presentations that you think are really [00:24:00] fascinating, that could apply to all of our.

Presentation development. Send it our way, Molly, at ghost ranch.com.

Molly: I will say, I feel like we're getting, we're honing in even on a more niche playlist in these TED tokens where it's kind of like the science of storytelling and the, yeah, the science behind communication. There's so much a variety of people that can approach this from scientists to, yeah.

Researchers, journalists, like all like, there's been just such a wide variety. Yeah. I saw one on the Ted Deck. Ted site that was like. How to, from the best pick pocket, the world's best pick pocket or something. I was like,

Mikey: that is fascinating

Molly: variety of people that, and this just, I think, you know, affirms our thesis of like presentations and storytelling overlap everything.

So

Music: yeah,

Molly: Christopher, love to talk. We're gonna keep going and these students of storytelling and if you've got a favorite one, send it that we haven't done yet. Send it our way.

Mikey: Communication matters, soft skills, pay bills. And until next time y'all. Keep on on [00:25:00] pitching.