TED Talkin’: How framing is used in the science of storytelling

Molly Geoghegan (00:03)
Welcome back to presentation thinking aka the storyteller study club. I'm your co-host Molly Geoghegan— narrative strategist over at Ghost Ranch Communications your presentation agency for all things PowerPoint Google slides and anything PDFable I'm usually joined by my other co-host founder of Ghost Ranch Mikey Medusky But I'm pretty sure he's doing something cool like skiing today. So we're gonna do something even cooler presentation nation. We are gonna be Ted

Now, if you are just joining for the first time, you might not know, Mikey and I often will watch a Ted Talk, anything from the most viral, most viewed of all time, know, your Brene Browns, your Sir Ken Robinson, to just anything that kind of catches our eye because you never know. I mean, there are great presenters all around us. There's great presenters on your team, probably, and you might not even know. And we love to analyze three big elements, story, screen, and stage. The stories they tell.

the visual aids they use to do it, the slides, the props, and the stage presence that they execute with. I mean, this one today, I'm always surprised every once in a while I'll find just one of these gems where I'm like, this is an epic, this is a really great talk, and this is about from eight years ago, and it's more, it's maybe more relevant than ever. And it's always interesting to see how some things age.

well, worse, weirder. You know, we've had some kind of pre-COVID, post-COVID things that have been really interesting with risk communications. And this one in particular is by Nat Kendall Taylor, probably doctor now says he was a PhD at the time in 2018. Now he spoke at the TEDx mid Atlantic salon. This is a classic 14 minute TED talk. If you're unfamiliar, TED talks are often between 12 and 18 minutes. It's this perfect kind of.

container, not too short, but not too long to really get a nice succinct story in. And oftentimes as Dr. Nat Kindle-Taylor is, he's a researcher, has data to share. so to persuade someone of what you're researching, explain what you're researching as an expert, get your information, whatever you're studying across. So this is a really fascinating talk. It's called How Words Change Minds, The Science of Storytelling. So

you know, science and storytelling caught my eye. And while this is not a very, you know, viral Ted talk or anything like that, it's one of those where I'm like, I think it's important to watch people like Nat talk because he's a really great presenter. You know, he's kind of your every man, not to discount his amazing work, but it's just important to see how, you're someone with, yeah, a little bit of a product to share, research to share. I've talked to friends, we've had, you know, doctors on the cast that have told us about the...

the research presentation is a huge part of their job. So even though you might find, you're like, what I have to present about is so boring. Like I'll never be as charismatic as these incredible speakers that I see, you know, I'll never pull off what Steve Jobs could do. You don't have to. This is a really compelling talk and it's just about social sciences, okay? And their visuals, very, very simple.

So go ahead and watch that in the spice cabinet and when you're back, let's get into it.

Okay, great, did you watch it, did you love it? Did you have a couple of thoughts about how it could apply to today's world? Because the science of storytelling, Nat's talk, is about framing, messaging, and developing things for your audience so that it hits. Now this sounds kind of vague, and you're like, what the hell is framing? Of course we learn in journalism, basic journalism in school, you're like, all right, I know certain.

Places spin stuff depending on what kind of prior knowledge someone might have implicit bias. We all know ⁓ In these these crazy times that depending on someone's disposition preferences, whatever that's gonna change the way they absorb and Affect their behavior with the information they're provided. So framing as Nat Kindle Taylor presents I love saying his full name. Love a hyphenated name ⁓ Is is everything?

And so the choices we make as communicators matter, his words. So he opens it up. We always are interested to see how someone starts to talk. He says, I'm gonna start this off with a warning. And you know, it's always interesting because usually it's usually like a positive opening. Like I'm gonna tell a story about childhood once upon a time or they show a cute picture or something like that.

Or they make like a lighthearted inside joke about what's been happening at the conference. But to start off with a warning is interesting. You kind of lean in, you're like, oh, what is Nat gonna tell us? And he says that he doesn't have any communications experience. He's never worked in PR, but what he does do is study social sciences. Hold on, John, I'm just finding my notes here.

there it is. ⁓ But what he does do is study social sciences. He's a psychological anthropologist and he studies the way that culture influences how we think. So as I said, this can be very effective in becoming a better communicator. And he states, this is very common in presentations, you'll hear this all the time in TED Talks, within this first 60 seconds, state a goal. He says, quote, one of my goals here today is to show you that this picture, he shows a picture of that.

why it says top 10 most useless degrees in anthropology is linked as like the number one. So he's like, I'm trying to show you that this isn't true. So we automatically get a laugh. It's a great visual to share. It's just a funny, simple screen grab from an old style like Google search. It actually looks like a Bing or like Yahoo or something, but anyway. he says, I'm gonna talk about two things. Another really common thing. Again, we're in the first like 60 to 120 seconds here.

He's gonna say that public thinking, he studies two things. Public thinking is what he studies. It's not public opinion. He kind of differentiates these two. This is how people use culture in a deep and predictable way to think about social issues. It's kind of like group think. it's like, yeah, it's like, what do we think? It's like, what do I think as like someone that lives in Oregon? I have certain sets or something. What do I think as someone that was born in a different state? What do I think as?

you know, someone that likes the color blue or is born in the month of March, like, you know, astrology. There's like kind of like public generalizations about things. And the other thing he studies is that the way in new information can affect people when they intake new information. So framing where that comes in is how variations in the way that we present information can lead people to drastically different outcomes and behaviors. So how can

that information affect the think that the person already has, okay? So kind of think of these like, I've got a little circle of the individual and then we've got like the frames, how they hit them. I mean, you think about like, you know that thing you do when you hold up your hands and pretend to like be rolling a camera, like to frame the picture like boom, boom. Like think about what you frame visually in your mind and then, but think about the way that information can come in through that. If you only know.

two or three parts of a 10 part story, it's gonna look a lot different for you. So that's what framing is. And of course, he's a funny, relatable guy. He's like, this is my dream. I'm gonna geek out about framing. We're three minutes in here. This is really common thing within the first, I would say three to five minutes to kind of like build rapport with the audience. Call yourself a nerd. So if you're a PhD student and he's like, this is my dream. I'm gonna geek out about framing.

I'm guaranteed to enjoy this, even if you guys don't. But he's like, we're all communicators and Framies matters. So then he gets into it and he says, I want to talk to you about this day for two reasons. And this is another funny visual. Again, his slides are very simple, just I think aerial font, like black and white. I don't think he changes that at all. And he says, you all have a problem. And everybody laughs. And he's like, you may say XYZ about what you do, especially with work, right?

If you ever tried to explain your job, especially if like us marketers in like B2B tech and stuff, like if people are outside, my partner is a therapist, like they have no idea what they, they call it click clack. They're like, I don't understand what you mean when we're talking about, yeah, like, the acronyms people, right? The jargon. When you say the jargon, they think something different. He uses this image that says you say AAA, they think BBB.

An expert advocate, this is especially hard for an expert advocate. We've talked about the curse of knowledge here before. To go from an expert's brain to the public is a really hard transition to make. So there's something in between that. And what's in between that filter, some things coming in and some things that stay, is culture. So he says that previously, the way people absorb information is like a fishbowl effect. He shows a basic. ⁓

human head with a fishbowl in it, like just filling with water. And he's like, we used to think that like public perception was just a blank slate. Like anything someone just learns like brand new coming, going through the world is you're like, wonderful. I'll take that in for fact as is like objective. That's not true. We all know everything is subjective to people based on what they know. So again, this is, know, if you're, if you've listened to the podcast, you've heard us say that you need to figure out how to talk to your audience, talk their language, what lands with them.

This is, these are the reasons we watch this, these Ted talks. So interesting. And if you haven't heard that before, super useful. You're going to really like this talk. And then the next reason, so he says, yeah, we all have a problem. That's something we challenge. We're challenged with all the time, especially if you're, if you're listening and you're in a, I had to work on a, a pitch for a really complicated startup. so to, to translate the startups language.

to as an investor and like convincing fundraisers to give like to give them, know, hundreds of thousands, not millions of dollars in capital, like you really have to be able to translate that and have it land. You would talk to an investor differently than how you would talk to your friend at a cocktail party about being like, or a new friend being like, what do you do? Right? You would say it very differently. So the other thing that he says is that understanding is frame dependent. So it just depends what kind of.

platter you serve it on, right? ⁓ So then he's like, obviously I'm going to give you evidence-based stuff. He's a researcher. by this point, I think it's like what? Four-ish minutes in. I'm like, I'm expecting a graph. It's time for a graph. So he's like, all right, how do we... He goes to Canada. This is Canada, Canadian study. And he says, we were trying to figure out how to engage members of the public to support evidence-based addiction policies.

helping folks with addiction, right? So he's like, we took like a series of value messages, a couple of things that are core values to humans, interdependence, ingenuity, and empathy. And we measured, for each of those value messages, there was a series of messaging, right? If you're a copy editor, you've probably written versions of this where you're like, do it one where we focus on the passion, do it one where we focus on the...

the efficiency of the product. Do it one where we focus on how much time they'll save, right? Like you can go through each of these things, time, ⁓ family, you know, these kind of, these value messages. So for interdependence, they had the message of, you know, we're all connected. Like we're Canadians, we have to help each other out and we're all part of this community basically. Two, again, this is to support, ⁓ to increase people's support for evidence-based addiction policies.

The second one was ingenuity. So that kind of message was like, we're innovative, we're problem solvers, we're, I think it's Alberta, we're Albertans, we've got grit, we've got the power to get through, like let's get people help, you know? And then the last one was empathy, which is that kind of message I'm sure we've all heard, which is that, you know, of course people that deal with addictions are people too, they're humans, we should help them. And...

The framing, these are all kind of the messaging creates these frames, right? And the frames are able to move people's social understanding and policy support. What went highest? What tested for this? I was actually surprised to see that empathy tested lowest. That is something that people have been overexposed to and they're kind of like tuning it out, which is kind of sad. He said empathy tests high in other ranges, but with this issue in particular.

And maybe it was this area in Alberta, who knows, ⁓ but that tested the lowest. Kind of testing medium was the ingenuity innovative problem solvers, but testing the highest was the interdependence messaging frame. So we're all connected, we have an obligation, let's help each other out. So that is meant to show as evidence to us that like we believe that frames work and they change people's opinions. We're like, all right, yeah, I'm on board, right? The next.

the hurdle he kind of brings us to. And at this point, we're, let's say about a little more than halfway through the talk. We've gone through one kind of micro example. We've gone through his signposts and his goals. We know who he is. And I trust him at this point because I'm like, all right, he's showing, he's using, we've got this graph. don't quite, you know, there's numbers on it. And I see the bar graphs. Luckily it's simple enough, but ⁓ if you don't really know what the numbers represent, you'd be like, all right, how do you measure those points? Kind of, kind of difficult.

So I trust that he's getting, he's doing what he needs to be doing, it's PhD. And then he says, what about implicit bias? Can frames make people less subconsciously biased against a group of people? So I'm sure this is something we've all thought about the last couple of years, like how this can really is something we do need as a society. ⁓ Can we reframe these social issues we all face? ⁓ So he says one of the examples that they wanted to look at was,

reframing aging can frames make people less implicitly biased against older adults? I thought this was interesting. Their control group was that Americans don't typically like older people. ⁓ I guess I'm not surprised, but like, dang, kind of sad. And he said that the framing changes and the bias decreases when they compare aging to momentum and building power and gaining knowledge and just having a more full, well-rounded life.

But if you were to just ask someone, do you prefer, and this is all on a Likert scale, right? So you're having someone, you're having these participants rate. Do you prefer older or young? Preference over old versus young, just people in general, like with zero other context, right? And so there's like an, there's kind of a, there's a proof point that there is ageism, period. But when you talk about young versus old and you expand upon that.

say young people, blah, they're annoying, they don't know anything yet. Maybe they're bitching about Gen Z or whatever the weirdest new trend is. Versus like old people who have stories to tell that are wiser, that have ⁓ longevity and ⁓ a life well lived, blah, blah. You kind of increase the information and change the frame, then it absolutely decreases bias. So again, this is just proof that this is really, really strong.

based on what you give people. Okay, another pause, John. I just gotta find my next note.

Okay.

So this example of the ageism issue is kind of his biggest.

moment here. It's at the end of the talk where he is really using this as a proof point for that frames really matter and messaging matters. And at this point he brings in kind of this, he's like here, that was you know, just one example, right? But he blows it out a little bit. He brings on, I always think this is, it's nice, I love a well-placed quote. And he hasn't used any quotes yet, so he puts this one on the screen, you do see it. ⁓ He does read it, which we know you're not necessarily supposed to do, but that's okay.

He reads, neither revolution or reformation can ultimately change a society. Rather, you must tell a more powerful tale, one so persuasive that it sweeps away the old myths and becomes the preferred story. So that's from Yvonne Illich from Storytelling or Mythmaking, which I think Mikey and I will have to add to our books because there's something really interesting here about how, you know, revolution, reformation, there's a lot, you know, those are the ways.

people talk about changing society. I also think it's the stories we have been told and the stories we've told ourselves and we tell our friends and our families and our neighbors. But yeah, this quote here, I'll just reiterate this last part. Rather, you must tell a more powerful tale, one so persuasive sweeps away the old myths and becomes the preferred story. So it's not necessarily about the truth. It's about people's preferences for the stories that they take. Now,

Why does this matter again for presentation thinking and storytellers? That is really, that's a really nice green light, I almost cursed. ⁓ That your.

power is ultimately still with you. You might be like, oh, consumers aren't interested in XYZ anymore if there's no AI or if it doesn't do this or if there's not an app. You still have the power to create that messaging, to craft it. think this is, again, back to that, this is a piece of the strategy. And how do I know that Dr.

Nat Kindle Taylor is like onto something here and like has made a whole career of it. I'll link in the spice cabinet, but he has a whole Institute and business based off of this called Frameworks. And I'm on their like featured impact stories. And it's all about like case studies with narrative change in the climate justice movement. I think we can all recall these, there, you know, when like the first talking about climate change and it was like, Oh my God, we have to all use paper straws or we're going to die. Like this is horrible.

It's all the, and all of the burden was placed on the individual. I think that was purposeful instead of the corporations that need to shift, right? And of course there can be little everyday things we make, but there's a concerted effort to change that framing. it's less do like people feel very so overwhelmed about climate change that people defer to inaction. That's a truth, right? I've, I've seen some interesting studies come out that it's so intense that there's no one way to start, right? Without just knowing that your plastic, your plastic to paper straw switch.

is just gonna be a drop in the bucket. So being able to change the narrative, to get people to act, to feel something, to buy your product, to pay the hell attention during your keynote is super, super important. I think this is also a testimony and a validation to the fact that messaging and framing, depending on who you're talking to, what audience you're talking to is also everything. Your talk and your keynote, your presentation is...

wildly going to be different if you're doing a breakout session with maybe 12 people that are super, super immersed in the type of industry you are. They know all the jargon. You can probably skip the first six to eight slides. But if you are a keynoter, especially if you're someone that's kind of works in a complex space that people aren't super familiar with and you're trying to just evangelize a bit to the masses, maybe do some awareness thing, maybe just trying to get people hyped up.

and share a little bit about your story or a breakthrough, that is going to look a lot different too. So I think it's just another validation in our bucket that you have the control with framing and messaging to, to do anything. We talk about how, you know, stories, things with stories help people feel, help people remember, and framing can help that. Framing is the strategy. Framing is the strategy.

There are some framing fundamentals and essential resources on his website, which I will link in the spice cabinet here, but very cool. ⁓ I've never heard it really called, I mean, we know that messaging can be strategic, of course, but I've never heard the social science behind this called framing. I think this is a really interesting name to what we already know as marketers, probably, if you're a copywriter for sure, and you're like, yeah, of course, but.

There's a whole science behind this and it's out there changing people's minds. I think ⁓ as Dr. Nat Kendall Taylor says, ⁓ my God, I almost said Kendall Jenner, you guys. ⁓ He says, if we want to drive social change, we need to develop, we need to test and we need to tell new stories. And I just think that's his call to action at the end, very powerful close. And then he says, frame on, which I loved, ⁓ kind of funny Nemo. So I'm on.

Or, yeah, isn't that finding an emoji on? Anyway, all right, story elements. I think he did great. I think he really executes who he is. He introduces himself well. He builds rapport with the audience and he goes through one small vignette of the research ⁓ in Canada and then he goes through the slightly bigger research project in the aging problem. In between that, he does a good job being like,

There's two reasons I'm bringing this up. There's two things I study. One of my goals here today is XYZ. I think he's really clear throughout his storytelling. I'd be curious to know, personally, a little more curious to know the story around how the research is disseminated, specifically, if the talk could have been extended, maybe we would have gotten that piece, but ultimately, the story is really well told. Screen, the visual elements he used are really sparse. They're really simple. And when he uses them, they enact a little bit of humor.

super simple, like black, I love that he had a black background mostly in the white text, that's something that's easier on people's eyes. He has just the single quote at the end. And yeah, the one funny, I love the funny visual of my goal here today is to show you that anthropology major is not worthless, the most worthless major. And then stage, I think he has great stage presence. This is again, I think it's not gonna be a viral talk, like it's not the charisma of.

these, you know, these big wig speakers and thinking of the Gary, Gary Vanderchuck and those kinds of guys. But I think it's really worth the everyday B2B marketers to watch because this might be kind of the type of, ⁓ this might be kind of the stage presence you're used to seeing. Like he's, he's really comfortable. He paces around. He uses his stage. Maybe it could be a little more emphatic, but I think this is like a great, his pacing is really clear. And I think there's like a nice, ⁓

kind of a low-key nature. He said he's from Cleveland, to South of Midwest, I guess. And I think these kind of TED Talks are like the reason we do it. It's just, it's really cool to see people, dare I say, ⁓ share their ideas on stage. That's the whole point. So, story screen and stage. Thank you so much to Dr. Nat Kendall Taylor. Very cool work. I will link his talk, his business here. ⁓

Thanks for joining in everybody for this short and sweet presentation thinking. Until we Ted Talk again, keep on pitching.