What is Visual Storytelling? With Creative Director Allie Wilson

What is Visual Storytelling? with Allie Wilson

Molly: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Presentation Thinking, AKA, the Storyteller Study Club, AKA, the Visual Storytelling Study Club. As well, I am your co-host, Molly Gagan, product marketing manager at Ghost Ranch, missing my co-host, Mikey Madosky. I'm joined in his absence by another amazing presence we have at Ghost Ranch.

One of our creative directors, Allie Wilson. You've heard her before. Friend of the pod. Welcome back, Allie.

Allie: Aw, thanks Ma.

Molly: Always good to chat. Okay. How is that? How's that intro? We're always working on our intros and outros here at presentation Thinking. Another thing. We are constantly. Talking about is [00:01:00] visual storytelling.

And Allie, I was talking to you about the content we've been putting out here, um, on Presentation Thinking podcast and certainly at Ghost Ranch. Two, we have several strategic pillars of messaging and our how we think, you know, we can achieve presentation excellence, which is always the goal here. And we as we're, you know, it's April 2nd, so up April 3rd.

We're just getting into Q2. The theme for Q2 is all about visual storytelling, and this is something that we always have like focused on, on Ghost Strange before we even brought in like narrative design and all of these strategic. Pillars that really deepened our understanding of visual, visual storytelling.

But you Ally recently did a talk about visual storytelling and defining it. It's such a buzzwordy thing, and so I'm really excited to talk to you about defining visual storytelling, what people can really learn from it beyond just the buzzwordy kind of vibes, the value of visual storytelling. Why now and why like ai.

Like how AI can be included with it. All those [00:02:00] things. You're smiling, 'cause I know you, you think deeply about this, so I'd love to, I'd love to get into that and hear about your, uh, your deck you created at PMA. How is your, how is your journey with visual storytelling, Ben?

Allie: Oh, well, I mean, visual storytelling is, you know, yeah.

Again, like you said, buzzword. Um, I think even in my presentation that I gave, I had like a little buzzword alert button on the slide. Yeah. You're like, eh, jargon. But I, I'm stoked that it's a buzzword because that means, that means it's, you know, being talked about and discussed, and I'm sure, I'm sure it's defined in a lot of different ways by different people, but yeah.

I think taking some time to really think about what it means because it's a little bit abstract and I, I think, you know, you could either lean, you know, when you're thinking about it, think a little bit more like on the design and visual side, or you could think more about narrative. But really the incredible part of it is that it takes both of those things and it combines them.

And that's why it's such a, it's a difficult thing to achieve really great visual storytelling. It's not easy to do, but really [00:03:00] what it is, um, at least in my opinion, is it's really the art of using. You know, images, graphics, combined with like type, even thinking about deeply about how you're using color and thinking about it as a greater system to communicate a message or an idea.

But you know, even beyond that, it's about how to make really, really complex things, which we deal with all the time in presentation design. Really complex ideas and simplifying them so that they're really easy to understand and to make them really memorable. Um, especially, you know, especially important to have them create an emotional connect, uh, connection with your audience too.

And then beyond that, even further, 'cause we're always showing a lot of data and presentations and using it as a way to. Validate certain ideas or pieces of messages. Um, it's not just about showing that data. It's about actually, you know, creating a journey around that data, um, so that it's easier to understand

Molly: a journey around that data.

I love that. And it is kind of like I. I mean, we talked to, uh, in Q1 a lot about [00:04:00] strategic messaging, and that's like, I think that goes on a lot of, like, so much of visual storytelling. People think you can just slap something onto a slide and have the right words, but it's, it takes a lot of strategy behind the scenes before you even get to that point, kind of figuring out what is your story?

What are you trying to do here? What's strategic, what kinda language should you use for your audience? There's so much that happens before even being like. Bam, visual storytelling. It's kind of the sexier part. What do you think about that?

Allie: Yeah, no, and it's like, and Molly, as you know too, it's like about really listening and having a lot of conversations and doing research and looking for, you know, patterns across all those conversations.

And so it's not even just about coming up with messaging that sounds. Super sexy to one person. 'cause it might not sound sexy to another person. It's really about finding the thing that brings everything together. It's, and, and, you know, goes beyond just writing something cool or writing something that you think is interesting.

It's just, it's so much more holistic than that.

Molly: Yeah, absolutely. [00:05:00] Okay, so you were recently at the Product Marketing Alliance Summit in New York City, um, just last month, and I know you've been. Getting on the stage more and more ally. So I'm excited to hear about your presentation experience, but talk to us about like what that deck was that you presented and how you came to pick that topic of visual storytelling.

Allie: Yeah, so this was, this was a little different than mm-hmm. Than the other times I've spoken. It wasn't like a keynote, like I've done, you know, the past couple of times where it's like a pretty big room. You know, you're looking out at, you know, a hundred, 150 people, you know, they're on their laptops looking at their phones and.

But, so this was different. This was a, a very small group. It was the breakfast briefing and Intimate. It was actually a separate group. It was very intimate, which, uh, was a little scarier for some reason at first. Yeah. So small room. Um, and I had just 10 minutes to give this talk. So it was really short. Oh shoot.

It needed to be pretty punchy. Um, and quick hitting, which I actually [00:06:00] really enjoyed putting together content for that. It's a lot harder than putting together a longer talk 'cause you really like. Down. You have a lot you wanna say, but how do you say it quickly? It's a really good exercise to try and present something impactful in a short amount of time.

So I, I loved it. I loved putting together my content for it. But yeah, you know, this room was, you know, a special breakfast briefing. I had the, this 10 minute bit, you know, we were sponsoring it, so it wasn't like it was a series of other people presenting. It was one person really. Sharing research findings with this group of executives and like higher level, you know, pmms, like people that are more like director, vp, C-Suite, um, at their company, um, presenting these really great, you know, interesting research findings.

And it was more of a, like a conversational room. So she would be presenting research findings. Um, people throughout the room would, you know, raise their hands, share what they thought about that research, so, mm-hmm. It was a very interactive space. So it started out feeling intimidating and then I was like, wow, you know, I love, I loved how [00:07:00] engaged everyone was.

Like, yeah, we were really into the content, really excited. So it was basically. Just data research findings. And then here I come and I was like, well, like this is gonna feel different to everyone. Like welcome to like intermission. Basically this is a, this is a total, you know, a total pivot from the rest of the content that they're, they were experiencing.

And I think that really worked to my advantage because it was probably my favorite presentation I've given.

Molly: Yeah, I can, I can feel that in the slides. I mean, it really is so punchy, as you say, and what I like went through and just was like. Going through the visuals and then reading your talk track along with it.

It just made so much sense. You know, I know you, I've heard you talk about visual storytelling in the past before with upon Ghost Ranch's behalf, but it was great to just see these kind of milestones that you applied to it. The Dr. Carmen Simon Reese study, which I wanna talk about here in a second. And, uh, right brain, left brain, and then having ghost wrench come in as like.

There's a team for that. This is what we do. And then an impetus of like, why [00:08:00] now talking about ai, there was really like a good story to it as well. Even just packed into those 10 minutes and what, 30, 30 some 30 odd slides.

Allie: Oh yeah. I did get a message from them, um, when I sent my slides over and they were like.

You know, you're only speaking for 10 minutes, right? Like this is you. Like, I was like, don't you? I was like, I was like, I whipped through 'em. Don't worry again. Yeah, yeah, totally. I was like, I whip through quick. And it's, and it's actually, that in itself is a really good, um, representation of what we're talking about with visual storytelling and that it's not necessarily about slide count.

It's about. How you're telling the story, what you know, what kind of tools do you have at your disposal to make something memorable and not try and cram tons of ideas and it's worth of conversation in 10 slides because then you're just sitting stagnant on one slide. People are trying to read it or they're getting distracted, but it's really about creating an ice cadence.

Mm-hmm. And flow to like. Help support what you're speaking to. So it's not about how many slides are in the deck at all. Mm-hmm.

Molly: Yeah. That is always a myth. We're just trying to dispel here. If you are a product marketer [00:09:00] or someone that's creating a presentation, listening at home, then you're like, I've been told I have to have a slide limit.

It's all the stuff. We're always trying to like break outta that because it really isn't about slide count when you're in a presenting moment like that. I understand when you're sending stuff on just in more of an email format and you can put more information on us. Slide. But when you're presenting, you can flip through like one idea per slide max, like that's it.

And then keep going. You know? And then even from the idea, there's rules and, and suggest and studies about how many, how many items that people can even take in per slide. Right? It's only five. It's no more than five people death by car point. And um, yeah. It's just like you can really feel that in this deck.

Allie: Yeah.

Molly: You

Allie: embody him. I feel like that's a good lead in to the, um, the Carmen Simon. Yes. I was gonna say it, please. Yeah, so, um, gosh, we absolutely love Dr. Carmen Simon, which she is. Yeah. Brilliant scientist, brain scientist, visual cognitive, neuroscientist.

Molly: Thank you. Yeah.

Allie: Yeah. She is incredible in so many ways.

Um, and she, and what she [00:10:00] does is just so specifically, you know, just so specific to what we do. And so, you know, she, what she does is she studies how business content affects our brains. Mm-hmm. Um. Very, very specific, uh, niche studies. Yes. Um, in this very short talk that I had, I brought up a study that she did.

Um, she has this book, it's called Made You Look. Mm-hmm. Um, it's really, it's really awesome. I'm sure Mals, that you'll, you'll link. Yeah. We'll link it. But so what she did is she did this study where she had, um, participants stare at a beige wall for 30 seconds. So just a blank beige wall. Nothing on it. And then right after that, she had them consume B2B content.

So like presentations, videos, handouts, that kind of stuff. Just like standard B2B content. Mm-hmm. And she observed their brain activity for both. Mm-hmm. But they ended up finding was that they, there wasn't a significant difference between. Them staring at a beige wall and consuming B2B content. So, [00:11:00] you know, at the end of the day, that means that most B2B content is about as engaging as staring at a beige wall, which is, um, you're like o big.

Yikes. Oof. Yeah. It's a kind of painful, but like, but like, are you, how surprising really is that Yeah, yeah. That you see on a regular basis. You know, it, it's just, it's interesting and it, and it should be, you know, one of those studies that. Really hits home. I know when I was, when I was giving this talk, like everyone in the room, I definitely got a chuckle out of the room.

Yeah. Like it, but then they're like, Ugh. Yep. This one, that was a, that hits a twist of the knife. Yeah. Like, um, they definitely, um, and then that was, you know, the whole idea of this talk was everything I hit on, I wanted it to be like a head nodding, like I feel seen sort of conversation because at the end of the day it was, you know, in a sense a pitch for Ghost Ranch.

So it was like, mm-hmm. Yes. This is something we experienced.

Music: Mm-hmm.

Molly: Yeah. We're B2B people who have like both encountered that content and then been stopped creating [00:12:00] it and feeling like discouraged by how that lands. Yeah. Just to reiterate like that is so devastating that like people and, yeah, not surprising, but to go through that study and have.

Not a big enough difference from people staring at a beige wall to consuming B2B content. Like that's a bummer. And it's also an opportunity. So it's like, what is going on? And I, I know you talked about this in the talk a little bit, what are some of those like red flags? Like why is B2B content so sad?

What is, what does Dr. Carbon say about that?

Allie: I mean. Yeah. I, I mean, and, and part of it, you know, we do want, always wanna recognize it's like, you know, pmms didn't go to des design school. Right? For sure. It's hard to make no judgment, even if you're a designer. It's, it's, uh, it's not like PowerPoint or Google Slides.

It's just like super intuitive, medium that's really easy to work in, even for a designer. So it's really tough. So. No one's. No one's trying to say like, you need to go out and become a designer. It's, it's more just like starting to recognize [00:13:00] what does make a really good slide. Mm-hmm. You know, what does make a really good presentation and what are some of the things that we see that are problematic all the time that cause that beige wall syndrome.

Beige wall syndrome. Always saying You what? Like, I know you keep saying death by PowerPoint. It's like those endless bullet points like a wall. Mm-hmm. That is probably. There's probably some beige wall vibes when you see a wall of text, you know? Yeah. Wall of texts.

Molly: Maybe an Excel snapshot of like what the graph, like what you're trying to convey with data.

Oof. That's That's hard. That's hard because what is the, I mean, of course you want people's, I. Attention. But what is the value of that visual storytelling landing rather than people, yeah, kind of pulling out their phones to check on what's going on, falling asleep, forgetting about it, not having an impact, like the val value of someone remembering your slides, your content, what is, what is that like, why is that so sought after?

You know?

Allie: So not to, like, not to pivot to another speaker mm-hmm. That we saw. But I'm going to because he, [00:14:00] we can plug him. He rocked our world. Yeah. We've gotta plug him. So Mikey and I attended another keynote and we were just sitting next to each other and I think we pinched each other like 30 times. Or like, I hit him in the ribs because it was Oh.

It was just so good. So, um, Tim Pollard. Okay. And I think it's PR pronounced Iridium, um, is where he's from. I, I mean, it was one of the best presentations that either of us have ever experienced. I swear I'm coming back. No, I love it. No, this is great. This'll come full circle, I swear. So this presentation that he gave, he.

I mean, there were like maybe a couple of slides that were just like photos that he showed, but his whole presentation was given on a paper flip chart, which we were just intrigued by that. That's fun. Yes. He also wrote a book, um, it was actually one of the first books Mikey ever sent me. Uh, it was like, almost like 10 years ago.

Um, and it's called The Compelling Communicator. Yes, I remember this name. Founded Familiar. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so. [00:15:00] This is, this is where I'm going with the, the value of visual storytelling. And, um, so he had, he brought forward this concept of retell ability. Mm-hmm. So when he was talking about retell ability, and this is more, I guess this is more like a sales, you know, thinking of it from like a sales perspective.

Mm-hmm. That. Often when salespeople get to be in front of an audience, like a potential customer, they wanna throw everything at 'em. They're like, I, okay. So like I have this one opportunity to pitch to this person. I'm going to give them everything we have. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna tell every detail of every single thing.

'cause I want to like express how amazing my product is, or my service, or whatever it is I'm doing. I wanna tell them everything. Yeah. But you know, Tim was saying in reality, you know, you think that everything is riding on this conversation with that person. Like that's where you're making the sale, right?

Mm-hmm. And he was like, no. He was like, it's the person that you talk to. It's the second conversation that they then go and have with their stakeholders to make that decision. And he was like, and you're not in the room for [00:16:00] that. Like, so. Mm-hmm. Even if you, you know, dump a bunch of stuff on 'em and your product's great, they need to get, then go and convince.

Other stakeholders or the other people who are managing budgets or whatever it is mm-hmm. To buy your product. And if what you're saying to them is not memorable or he, you know, he called it ret tellable.

Music: Mm-hmm.

Allie: It's not gonna happen. Yeah. If they can't tell the same story that you told them. So that's really at its score, the value of visual storytelling, because visual storytelling, the whole intention is to be memorable, to be emotional.

Impactful to actually have your, you know, to be bringing, you know, that left and right brain side, those sides together to, you know, create something that's differentiated. Mm-hmm. And actually meaningful that someone like. Walks away remembering. And that will then like give them the opportunity to then tell the same story to someone else.

Because it was memorable. It was differentiated a hundred percent. So that really is the value.

Molly: Yeah, absolutely. It makes me think of the Made to [00:17:00] Stick book that Mikey and I read by, um, chip and Dan Heath, the brothers Heath, and they talk about that stick that's that sticky quality that once if something is done.

Well upfront and you do all that work. We've talked about like behind the scenes and then it's, you know, maybe you've invested a lot of money to get it designed well, but it can go on. That's a lot of work upfront, but it can go on to live on its own after that. And we recently did a TED Token episode with a social scientist William Store, who talks about gossip and the exchange of just information and good stories as like.

These little encapsulations of something like a a, a sales interaction. Because if the goods, if you think about like a, a good or funny story anyone's ever told you, your ability to go tell it again is the reason that it remains good and be like, oh my God. You have to, you know, you all have, have friends.

Like tell, tell the you're that ghost story. Tell the, this funny story or whatever, you know, like that is. If that's, if you translate that to a sales world and you've got someone that's repeating something that's so powerful, they've got the good visual to go with it. Um, or the good [00:18:00] kind of anecdote that really encapsulates what they're trying to share, that's.

Priceless. You know, that value is just like, um, I think in, in my opinion, endless. You know, 'cause it can keep going after that. Like, all information is storytelling, like that's shared, you know, so it's really, it's cool to see. I love hearing about that. Tim Pollard full circle. We'll definitely link him in the Spice Cabin.

Um. I know, of course this is like, yeah. So even if you've got someone that's like, of course I know the value of visual storytelling. Yes, I get it. And why are we talking about this now when there's so many tools like AI that can do it for me? You know, what's, what did you, you kind of answered that in the deck and, uh, what, how did you bring that into your storyline here?

Allie: Yeah, I mean, well, you know, the beige wall stuff, right? Mm-hmm. So there, you know, bringing that back, you know, I'm glad we continue to talk about it because it is, it's such a, like, you can picture it in your head, right? It's really mm-hmm. It's pretty compelling, but, um, the market's crowded and it's just getting [00:19:00] more and more crowded for sure.

Products, it seems like, you know, it's becoming harder and harder to differentiate products from one another. Now it's like coming down to like the price race. It's like who can do it? You know, the same thing for the cheapest amount, but it's, yeah, that's really hard to do and you don't always wanna compete that way.

So yes, the market is crowded. Um. Things are just starting to all look the same. I think I called it like the sea of sameness. Mm-hmm. It's just everything is kind of looking the same and melding together. Um, people are getting exhausted by just. The amount of options that are out there that all kind of look the same, how do you pick one out?

So it's really just about like that huge focus on differentiation. And you know, AI makes it really a and, and I, I know it seems like I'm like knocking on AI really hard. I, I think AI is incredible if you're using it the right way and you're using it really intentionally.

Molly: Mm-hmm.

Allie: Yeah, absolutely. But if you're just kind of using it the same way everyone else is using it.

Once again. Mm-hmm. Your [00:20:00] stuff is still gonna look just like it's going to look. It's smell at B, just like everyone else's. So it's about using. AI in combination with like really strong strategic, valuable human efforts to come up with that strategy, to come up with the messaging, to come up with the concepts behind the visual storytelling.

And if you're using AI to help either carry out some of that, those visual concepts and bring them to life, or using it to, you know, find ways to be more efficient on the backend. Like there's tons of ways to do that. Mm-hmm. But I wouldn't use it as. A way to make a presentation by itself because you're going to take away all the human interactions and conversations and iteration sessions that you have with people that are going to make something that truly matters and that actually resonates with people.

Molly: We're quoting it, we're pull quoting that whole thing for sure.

Allie: Oh, oh yeah. Oh, something else I didn't wanna wanna leave out is, um. You know, not [00:21:00] sure everyone agrees with this, but it's like B2B selling is, it's mostly millennial buyers these days. Um, where it was like, you know, the boomers and you know, it, things were used to be a little bit more transactional than they are now.

And now, like buying is becoming so much more emotional. Me, millennials, we we're emotional creatures and, and so, and you know, to get to emotion with people, you know, you need to have a greater understanding of them and, you know, what triggers those emotions and, you know, all of that stuff has to be done very intentionally and thoughtfully.

Um, and just maintaining that human element and perspective is. Is kind of more important than it's ever been.

Molly: Yeah, definitely. I actually didn't know that, but it makes, I've always heard the buy-in is emotional, but I think millennials care about that a lot more than this is the, that's the first generation that started to really care about that.

That's like having an emotional connection or a reason for going for something. And the differentiation of having that AI slop be [00:22:00] like. As part of blending, as part of the beige wall versus using AI and leveraging a really cool tool to iterate what you're going through, maybe do some research. There's a lot of ways I think that's useful rather than just generating images for a story that you yourself do need to develop because.

It's just the truth that it's not able to be as thorough with its storytelling, um, because it's learning from other stories. It's learning from human made stuff anyway. So you have to be able to develop the narrative first and then have the tool help you in my opinion. And I think that's, that makes a lot of sense from a presentation thinking perspective.

You know, this was. I know you said this was one of your more intimate presentations, but it's also your fourth, fifth one at the PMA summits. You've done a couple now. I think it was my

Allie: fourth.

Molly: Yeah. Nice. How is it feeling as someone that I have heard say you hate public speaking, it makes you so nervous.

How's it feeling

Allie: on the fourth rep? Well, you know, the first two I did, [00:23:00] um, for some reason my slides ended up getting set to auto advance or something. Yes, I remember that. And I, it was like every presenter's nightmare where Tech disaster. Yeah. I had tech disasters for two in a row, which is, it's kind of like, hey, like when the, the worst possible thing could happen and it's already happened.

It like yeah. Levels the ground. I will say like I practice, even if it's like a 10 minute presentation in front of a small group of people, I practice so much. Mm-hmm. It's important to just like, even if it's content that you already know really well, as, as if, if you're not comfortable with speaking, I.

Just practicing over and over and over again. Mm-hmm. You know, it gets hard towards the end because you start to get very sick of hearing your own voice, but it really does help. But, and then you get to a point where you've practiced so much that at least in this time and in my, my other two times where I had tech challenges and I had to just.

Speak out loud without looking at or anything like that. 'cause there was no, there weren't, there weren't, yeah. Yeah. No visuals at all. But [00:24:00] yeah, you just like, you hit your stride and because you just know it so deeply, um, you can, you know, my favorite thing to do is like, really listen to the room before you speak especially, and when you're in a setting where you're kind of being.

Interjected between other conversations. Mm-hmm. Thinking about what was already said in the room and like bringing that into what you're talking about. Like, I'd heard in the room earlier that sales enablement was becoming a really big focus for product marketers. So I was like, Hey, like heard, everyone was talking about how, you know, how much sales enablement, you know, needs are growing, you know?

Music: Mm-hmm.

Allie: And, you know, brought that into what I was speaking to so it didn't feel so pre-planned. It felt a little bit more ated into, you know. Mm-hmm. The way that the room was because it was a more conversational setting rather than it just being like a talking head on a stage. Yeah. Huge keynote kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. So I really, I really enjoyed this. The talking head on a stage thing, keynote, you know, is cool, but I love how interactive this could be because. There was no [00:25:00] microphone. You know? It was just it. It was really nice. It was very different. Mm-hmm. I love them though. Love doing both after it's done.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Stoked, like, ah, yeah, I like it. You know? Very empowering. Yeah.

Molly: Oh, I'm proud of you. No, that's such a good, that's such a good testament, you know, coming from someone that's, yeah. You've said you hated it and I think those are completely different directs. I mean, I would argue like those would be completely different classes and courses people could take of like the keynote as a talking head for the huge stadium audience versus.

Just this kind of intimate breakout where the audience is a living, breathing thing and is you're kind of interacting with it and what they're, they're saying and talking about. I also relate to, we have talked about being able to. Say something out loud when you're practicing a deck sounds so different than how you write it.

And it takes me a co, like many iterations of saying it out loud before it feels like my own words. I was like, I write something a certain way and then I say it. I'm like, Ooh, I didn't like how that felt. So I'm moving things around until it feels like myself in much more conversational and natural, [00:26:00] so it doesn't feel like I'm just reading from a script.

And that takes many iterations of saying something out loud. So highly recommend being able to talk aloud, even if. You've never, if, if you don't know where to start, practicing and iterating, like just saying your talk track out loud is so helpful.

Allie: Yeah. And if you do that, you can just record yourself and then have a ai Hey, ai, that's a good

Molly: use of AI for sure.

Totally. Definitely.

Allie: It makes so much sense. Yeah. And, and on top of that too, though, it's got, you know, I know not, not every time you speak is, you know, not everyone gets an opportunity to choose a perfect topic, that they're super proud. Mm-hmm. But that certainly helps, like visual storytelling is like, you know, I live and breathe it every day and I'm passionate about it.

So I think that always comes through when you really care about what you're speaking about. Mm-hmm. I think your true personality can shine and then that feels more genuine. So people wanna engage with you more because they're like, oh, like. She's being real with me. She's not just saying some bullshit, like she actually cares about this.

And it [00:27:00] makes people wanna listen more because you're being human, you know? Yeah,

Molly: yeah, definitely. And you can feel this in your slides. It's such your alley style of like your design and stuff, which by the way, if you're listening, um, we will be sharing this on the blog and in our newsletter presentation that you can describe, subscribe to@ghostranch.com.

Um, if you haven't already, so you can see a sneak preview of some of Ali's slides. Which you might find very useful to either sell someone on your, on your team on visual storytelling or use as maybe some like guiding lights as you create your next deck. So just to, uh, just to plug that I loved your slides.

Very funny too. Funny slides. Um, okay. I think it's time we get into the spice cabinet about visual storytelling. We've got a few things already. I'm gonna plug Dr. Carmen Simon, her work and her most recent book of you, as you already plugged in your deck, made you look using brain science to attract, um, attention and persuade others.

Such a good one. We're hoping her to have her on the cast sometime soon. Tim, uh, Tim Pollard, right? Compelling communicator and talking [00:28:00] about retell ability. We'll plug him as well. Allie, tell me your, um, did you get a chance? I mean, I didn't know this was a small. Deck presentation opportunity. Did you get a chance to use a walkup song?

Oh, oh, dang it. We gotta talk to, who is it? Harry Deer. Harry. Harry. On a PMA. Yeah. Gotta talk to their tech situation. If you did get a walkout song for this specific talk, like on visual storytelling, do you have a song in mind? Oh man. For this one specifically? Yeah. If it relates, um,

Allie: yeah. Uh, okay. Oh, oh, Molly, you're gonna love this one.

It would be The Painter by Future Islands. Hell yeah.

Molly: Right. Ugh. Sam Herring, take us, take us away. Uh, perfect. Yeah. So visual. He's such a visual guy. Yeah. Oh, yep. Talk about telling visual stories. Okay. Well, Allie, [00:29:00] thank you so much for joining. Um, this is a good kickoff to our visual storytelling quarter Q2. And again, take a, take a look at, um, subscribing to the Ghost Ranch Newsletter.

If you yourself wanna work on any presentation skills, I think there's an event coming up. With Ghost Ranch late July, story camp.com, where we're gonna bring in a couple of storytelling experts, presenting experts, uh, Dr. Amy Cuddy, Steven uh, Frank Ry, and, um, Terry z Platt, former White House speech writer will all be work shopping with people in person.

This is a super limited group. I think 50 people. 40, 50 people total. So it's gonna be kinda like your, your presentation, um, size alley. What do the people need to know about Story Camp? This is pretty

Allie: special. Uh, we, we, you know, set out to create an event that. We haven't really seen exist before, especially with this caliber of speakers, um, with such an intimate audience.

Again, like, you know, since we're talking about [00:30:00] intimacy so much, it's kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity to have such direct access to such incredible people. Mm-hmm. Where, you know, and this is again, you know, talking about the presentation ecosystem, right? Uh, it's focused on. Story, screen and stage.

Mm-hmm. So story, you know, storytelling wise. Yeah. Terry Z, who is Obama's speech writer. Mm-hmm. So. It's gonna be there. Be able to, to be able to learn directly from him is going to be absolutely insane. Um, Amy Cuddy, I mean, if you, if you don't know who Amy Cuddy is, then yeah, boy, you can

Molly: listen to episode 70 of this podcast.

Yeah.

Allie: Yeah. So, Amy Cuddy, you know, helping, you know, for the stage aspect of things, you know, presenting your, your, your presentation presence and your voice and you know how you are, you know, like, you know how you're carrying yourself as a person and speaking. Um, and then Steven Frank and. Maybe a little bit lesser known, but everyone should know who he is.

Just like an absolutely incredible, um, you know, visual, you know, he's, [00:31:00] he's talking about the screen part of, you know, the three pillars. So he's. You know, an incredible data viz guy. How do you put your information on the screen to make sure it's memorable and it's telling the right story? So the three of them together, getting to hear from all of them, and then there's an opportunity to do a lightning talk if you are a story camper, where you'll get to present for that.

Maybe that magical 10 minute segment that I was talking about earlier where it's, you know, it's hard to get a lot, you know, to say exactly what you want in just 10 minutes, but you'll have an opportunity to actually get feedback. From these three incredible speakers. Mm-hmm. And of course, just, it's in Park City, Utah, which is, it's gonna be gorge.

Pretty, pretty amazing. Great hiking music, um, just awesome networking opportunity. So, um, I think it's gonna be absolutely amazing.

Molly: So special. Yes and so relevant to this episode. Truly, if you are wanting to dig deeper into visual storytelling, we really love looking at that story screen and stage ecosystem.

As Ali said, it's kinda a [00:32:00] try Venn diagram, uh, where I think that sweet spot of presentation excellence really lives. So. Thank you so much for joining as always on the PO Podcast friend of the pod. Any final visual storytelling, parting shots for Presentation Nation before I let you go?

Allie: Okay. My final parting thought is if you're a a product marketer and you don't think you're creative, you're full of shit, you are creative, you are a visual storyteller.

You can give visual storyteller, big parting words. Sorry, moles.

Molly: I love it. No, that's great. Nice and snappy. Perfect. Well, thanks for tuning in everyone, and in the meantime. Keep on pitching.